The Limits of Therapy in Addiction Recovery with Bryan Petkau

Transcript

welcome to the Shameless podcast where I help Christian men kill shame stand strong and live on Mission I'm your host Ken PL and I'm bringing you real stories practical insights and biblical truths that equip you to break free from your sin shame and live a life of purpose let's step out of the Shadows together and Into the Light of Christ welcome back to another episode today I have with me the owner of renewed hope coaching where he specifically works with married Christian men who struggle with pornography my special guest today is Brian Petco Brian I'm super excited to have you we have been connecting texting uh emailing each other and building really this relationship because I think you and I have very kindred spirits and we're going to get into this and today's topic of what we're talking about is the limits of therapy in addiction recovery so you used to do a lot of professional counseling you've moved into the coaching world but before we go too deep into that Brian I want people to get to know you a little bit uh and I just really want them to know what's it like to be a Canadian yeah yeah I love the question I love the was like to be a Canadian everyone's expecting me to say cold brother coold but actually I'm a West you know close to Vancouver it's actually it's really nice here like weatherwise and things but yeah you know what right now we're looking toward we I think a lot of us are looking at at you guys right now today you know as we record this is inauguration day and with a bit of jealousy to be honest with you we're over here in Canada with literally no leadership at all like our lead has recently retired and there's nobody running this place and so what's like being a Canadian right now is really a lot of kind of uh frustration and uncertainty you know so that's kind of where it feels now is we're we're we're looking to you guys going like oh my goodness look at this and look GNA you know everything feels very hopeful you know again that's just the information that we're getting kind of on this side and we're praying and hoping for some similar things you know over here that's kind of how it feels to be a Canadian right now I know man I I've talked to several Canadians like we have no leader and I'm like wow that's weird and I I guess the legislation in can like you have to wait till March or something like that before you can like yeah I'm not problem the whole thing but apparently the you know the Prime Minister he knew he was in he knew he was toast and there was an election I think next October so still quite a ways away like 10 months and so he decides to resign and then essentially freezes our government and Leadership until they can their party can figure out a new leader or whatever meanwhile all the Canadians in this country are sitting here going like what are we doing you know meanwhile we have Donald Trump on your side coming in and we need to be communicating and talking and working with and all these kinds of things and there's so bit of a strange time to be a Canadian right now yeah well the topic today is not about the politics Canada and America but that is going to get very interesting I would say in the next year or two let's talk about this conversation about like the limits of therapy before we jump into that you know Brian give us a little bit of your story how did you get to this place where you started to realize there is this limit to therapy yeah yeah so for me you know the quick the quick Call's notes pornography was a struggle that I had you know for for for more than two decades yeah and was coming in you know was interfering with all sorts of relationships I was with the woman of my dreams and things were not going well and for me you know I was I was about to lose her and that was hey I need to find somebody to help me with this because I've tried on my own and you know and so found actually a therapist who specialized in this area very difficult to do that and just God knew what he was doing and so end up in his office and wish I could say that the clouds parted and it was a straight line you know but I had to put so while that was very good experience I also had to put a bunch of stuff together kind of myself you know as I was as I was kind of in you know group stuff and those kind I need to be connected with others and those kinds of things and it kind of wasn't being provided for there I found what I you know I found some really good Freedom Krist and I got married you know that's a whole another story praise God and uh felt called to become a Helper and so my first inclination was I'm going to become a therapist and I'm going to follow this path you know we feel like the Lord is calling us that way so hit University I started to study psychology took me nine years finish my Master's Degree specific training around sexual addictions those kinds of things and I open a therapy practice of my own very excited to do this kind of work and his word got out about what I specialized in my practice quickly full with a weight list around the corner the need as you know is huge and so start working with men and I do that in my practice for five years you know hundreds and hundreds of men through my office and really started to open my eyes to the fact that I don't think you know just as I was experiencing myself as a client like I don't think this is the best model I think we can do better than this you know than the finish a 50-minute session and like okay John like we'll see you next week you know have a great week brother you know that's a lot of week with no support kind of in between these 50 minute sessions kind of in the therapy world that's that's where a lot of guys would start to fall right it's like yeah they might have a great day after that but the evenings or the morning like there's a lot of week there yeah so it's like what is that 6 days 23 hours and 10 minutes with no support right out of the week and it's like okay and then sometimes I'd see a man you know at his next appointment I'd be like brother how was the week ah you know I got in the muck a few days after I saw you and I'm like darn like I wish we could have talked right before now so start to realize you know I think that that we can do better than that so that's that's really when it was starting to hit home for me is like and and I maybe we'll talk about that in a little while but for me I I knew there was something we could do better so I started to take a step away from the therapy world and started to ask that question it was like okay you know at that point I've been doing therapy for for five years in my private practice hundreds of men through my office and you know stepping back and thinking to myself well okay if I was going to put something together based on this last 14e journey you know nine years of University five years working with men that you know something together that I think would be really good for guys and not be constrained to buy all this stuff like what would that look like and so that's kind of how that's where I am now in the coaching space because it just frees up there's a freedom there I can do the things that are required for the results that we're trying to get versus trying to work within this framework because ethically and all these kind like you want to keep your license you better play by the rules like you can't check in with your clients like all those kinds of things you know kind of goes by the wayside and so there's there's been this freedom to do what we need to do to get the results that we need to get and it's been it's been a real blessing yeah so so besides the not having the ability to check in right because that seems like that was the biggest roadblock or the biggest limitation to therapy what was another one that you found you're were like oh my gosh this is just stifling the growth of helping people yeah so I think that you know and that's the model that we run not only one-on-one therapy sessions so as I alluded to you know the 50 minute here and there I think that it's important to have uh Community you know is really important too so to be able to offer you know we we we run groups you know guys have access to all sorts of different groups each week they just pick times that work for them based on their busy schedules and come in so we have that and we have like a private WhatsApp Community you know and those kind for in the- moment support so the guys are always plugged in with each other in this community and I think you know in the therapy world that would be something you absolutely could not do because now we're talking about sharing information about like all these kinds of roadblocks and red tape if I want to put it that way that are that are kind of in front of you so those yeah those are some other things and you know providing someone with a real plan and being able to tailor it to them and having this community and those kinds of things is just stuff you can't do there so I think like number two on that yeah definitely Community other men let's Community a little bit because I can see myself as a as a new guy if I'm struggling right now you threw me into this community and I know that they're all struggling because we all paying to hang out with Brian and get help with Brian how have you witnessed a community bond together or maybe challenges that they may have in trying to connect yeah so it's been such a like God is so good so we launched this program about three years ago and you know the question my mind was okay like here's put this thing together I think this is going to crush I think it's gonna do so well for men there's only one way to find out let's bring some guys in and let's do this and so then witnessing what he's done in this like literally today in our in our WhatsApp Community there are guys like literally right now as we speak there are guys who were struggling earlier and they've reached out and they've received this other support from all these other men you know lifting them up bringing them up and then they've checked in a little later in the day and gone you guys thank you so much for your prayers and just for having somewh to come here and be plugged into I'm feeling way better now and I'm on the path and without relapsing today and without falling back into that stuff when I first open the community like I wasn't sure I'm like because there's a lot of as you know you know there's a lot of Shame and things like this that comes with that and you know before we as we onboard men coming in we have that kind of conversation it's like listen I know that there's going to be some resistance even as there probably was reaching out in the first place naturally there's going to be some resistance coming in the community and and I just want to normalize that for you and just I want you to remember that every single man who's here had that first day in here you know and as you come in you're going to see these guys with these wonderful results because we run you know our program in six months but there's like a continuation thing where guys can stay so we've had some men with us for a couple of years now and they're they're doing great you know we're celebrating 750 days clear from all the stuff or whatever brother you're going to be maybe on day one or two when you come in here and just remember doesn't matter what or where they are they all started with a one or a two you know what I mean they were all at the beginning of that Journey at some point and so coming in just reminding of that and encouraging them you know and the guys are wonderful because they I think a lot of them remember too I remember the first time I came came in right and you know so it's just been watching God work in this has been just so so such a blessing I don't know how else to put it like these men coming together like you know time after time in these in these communities guys struggling just being brought up by this we use a war analogy lot by their platoon you know this platoon of men that their journey is just I hope that answers the question sorry Ken no no that's great man and I love that you just bring it up you preempt their concerns or their worry you're like hey you're going to feel like this I love you like every guy here has had this same day so a as you are working with men when they come to you what have you found to be the predominant themes in their lives yeah that they're struggling with and they're saying hey I I need your help Ryan sure yeah yeah I can say like you know the the story some way or another most of the time it's tough to paint with a gentle brush looks like you know I was exposed to this as an early age I've been struggling you know for decades didn't really think when I was young even about it much just you know was a thing and then end up with my with my wife end up married thinking that you know once I'm married and here's some guys oftentimes think this you know once I'm married this will be fine because I'll have my wife and this stuff but it's just it's just it's a tactic of the enemy you know just just not the truth and then so we're married for a while maybe things are okay for a bit and then eventually I fall back into it and eventually there's a discovery of some kind you know she finds out I promise her hey you know dear yeah like this stuff has been going on you know I'm going to do something about this and then maybe again some traction but then eventually kind of end up back there again and then in many cases multiple times this cycle repeats I'm discovered by my wife and eventually it's listen you need to get this you need to take this seriously or else we're we're in some trouble we might be done and then that's that's when they when they reach out and they're ready to get some help with the program like this so those are the themes and what I would love for men to hear about that even deeper and so there's kind of the timeline theme is but somewhere along the line they've learned that pornography you know in a strange way serves some kind of purpose for them and maybe like maybe they haven't learned and actually that's been on their radar much until we start to uncover that stuff but you think of being a teenager and all of those difficult pieces I'm in school maybe I'm not the popular one maybe I am I don't know whatever those things are and how hard it is just to grow up well I know when I go home to some degree or another for me it was magazines you know because I'm a little bit an older guy for the younger guys Internet's been there I know when I go home there's this Comfort waiting for me you know and it never says no and it's kind of always there like in some way it's serving these purposes as I grow you know think about Beyond te you're a young man married life I'm expected to work and all of those societal expectations sometimes identity things that are coming up and how am I soothing that discomfort because there is discomfort and so I've learned from a very young age this is how I do it and I just keep going back so that if I were to start pointing at like some very consistent themes it was you know how do I navigate discomfort how do I navigate identity as a man like in all these things you know oftentimes guys are so hard on themselves you know it's like Joe down sometimes you know Joe down the street is doing so well and I'm not doing as well and shouldn't I be better or I messed up as a father I messed up as a husband last night you know I lost my temper maybe or whatever these things are all of and us us not expecting Perfection all the time and maybe us being okay with being being fallible yes we should be working on ourselves and we want to be the best husbands and fathers that we can be yes but I mean the enemy uses all that stuff amplify discomfort bring us back to where we know how to soothe and just kind of rinse and repeat that's if I were to say one of the brushes that I paint there yeah you know Brian it's interesting that yesterday the day before we recorded this I I was in a men's Facebook group and I I literally just posted this question I was like hey why do you feel like men struggle with lust and pornography and I kid you not there's like over a 100 comments on it I was like whoa was not expecting that first and foremost right but like about a half of them was somewhere around that line where you just said this lie of like oh it's because I'm I'm not married or I don't have someone or now I'm divorced or I don't have someone to be able to have these sexual intimacy encounters or to be able to release and I'm like in my mind I was like well Jesus didn't have anyone and he was able to do it and there's a lot of single men that I know who are able to conquer it but it's this lie that we believe so I like how you are seeing these lies as themes of like no no no that's that's a lie from the enemy let's get rid of that but there also the second one that I thought is you you this whole time you didn't mention anything about like big traumatic abuse or traumatic encounters you're like talking to the normal guy who's like you know what I have I sense some purpose and pleasure from this situation and I want to relieve myself or I want to find some dopamine hit and it's like the normal guy who's constantly struggling and now is trying to find a way out yeah amen and just as you as you just mentioned you know the word trauma there if it's okay because I know that we're really going here is like where therapy falls short and you know part of the process ver us I can't speak to others and how they do it but ver us is is oftentimes use a Boiling Pot analogy you we think about the Boiling Pot in the stove and it starts to boil over you know the lids on and here it goes well we can quickly fix that we can pull that lid off and blow on it or whatever right that's quick quick fix there it is kind of thing right and that represents like maybe some of the tools and these kinds of things you'll see like softwares and these kinds great these can be helpful sure but I think the bigger question is what is that flame underneath like how do we turn that down how do we turn the heat down on the pot right so that it's not boiling over and those are things like if there is trauma history and those kinds of things and that's where in our program like we will be straight with with men after we because we screen for all this kinds of stuff and it's like listen if there actually is you know a trauma history maybe there was some kind of sexual abuse as kid and these kinds of things and it's kind of unresolved it might be our you know what we do with you around the pornography piece yes but it also might be actually working with a trauma therapist specifically for that piece so in conjunction with what we do so I think therapy does have its place in many in many instances like to this for instance trauma is I'm a big believer in specialization so we specialized in helping men break free from pornography yes there are people out there who are better at at helping men resolve trauma and so if that is something that is part of that flame underneath therapy might worked with this but I think on its own you know that's kind of my thesis is that it's not enough yeah yeah so great question like you mentioned TR just brought it to my mind no no that's good yeah if there is something that you need specialized help with then you should get that and that should also be part of the healing process because it's ter you know that's it's very difficult Brian I know here in the United States one of the limits to therapy is integrating your faith and counseling someone right like being able to talk about Jesus freely especially if you're dealing with unbelievers and different things like that how have you navigated that in your therapy and also maybe that's why you move towards a coaching model because now you're freed up to do whatever you want yeah great so when I was doing therapy and running my practice it was well known that I was a Christian guy and it would be part of my um copy on the website and those kinds of things too so we would have people I would have people come in and I worked with many like mostly Christians because I was getting a lot of people from pastors and those kinds of things people come to their pastor and like they're great at leading their flock spiritually and things but not probably not equipped for this and so they were sending people so a lot of Christians come but with a with a non-Christian it does it looks it looks different because you can't in the therapy World Heaven help you if you try to christianize anybody that's just fact well in Canada anyways like if you're sitting there and go like oh well maybe you need to pray more you could get in some big trouble really quickly with that and so if someone comes in and that's part of my intake process is oh yeah do you know do you follow any kind of specific faith and if the answer is no we kind of don't go there and to be honest it was another one of the ways I think a little bit handcuffing in that because I believe that there's you know there are three big components of this there's a biological piece we think about the neural Pathways in the brain like those kind of things we think about phys physiology when it comes to this it's very excitatory on a physiological level of course there's a psychological piece like where is this rooted what are the stories that are operating what keeps bringing me back there right on a psychological and then there's a spiritual aspect to this Like This Is War as we've been talking about right we have an enemy and if you're missing one of those legs you know it's like having a table you know missing that lag it's just not going to be sturdy so it was it's more difficult working with men where you can't go there where it's like yeah you know then you're just really stuck to biological psychological and you know that's it is it's much harder which is why when I stepped out into the coaching world I said okay we're GNA specifically work with with with married Christian men because this is the this is a holistic program and this is what I think is needed holistically I've had actually people reach out to me and ask me to be on their podcast in the past and they've said to me hey would you mind like just not talking about that Christian stuff or whatever like I'm not coming sorry like I'm just it's just such a big part of what we do like I just I don't know how i' leave that out hey while you're you know yeah sounds silly but like hey while you're a bag of meat walking around with nothing else like here's the thing like it just I don't know how to speak like that and so yeah so yeah no no I I mean but that's huge and I think that's why I wanted to bring it up because I love that three component piece right you got biological psychological and spiritual yeah right and if you miss one of those you're always going to be falling yeah and and I found right like there are sometimes some Christian counselor they all they do is focus on spiritual right and it's like that'll answer everything but like no there might be some trauma there or biological like there there are things that people deal with I'll give you a great example I uh I so when I was 19 I got my thyroid removed and that controls your for those who don't know this this controls your metabolism it controls some other chemicals but one of the side effects is if I'm not careful and I'm not like I haven't optimized my thyroid intake I can start to get into these like depressive moods and like you know when you are feel depressed sometimes you feel lonely and if you're feel lonely then all of a sudden you are more easily accessible to Temptation right and that Temptation for lust and I have found many times in my life I'm like I just could backtrack and look I'm like oh my gosh right now I feel really depressed I have no idea why right like it was just like random and then I just like asked myself I'm like have I been taking my supplements and medication and it's like oh I miss it a few days like it just kicks in and I realize okay this is just biological I need my friends to keep me accountable to just press through this and then once I've done it I'm like I'm good to go I'm back in shape that's not always the case there are some cases it is spiritual right like there is like it says in scriptures like the lust of the flesh the lust of the eyes and the pride of life right sometimes it's that sometimes psychological right like pain come through this I say all that to ask you Brian how do you help men to determine out of those three legs which one is the most predominant area where they are struggling with yeah and that's in kind of the in our program I don't want to maybe we'll get into that later exactly what we do but part of it is one-on-one time with the with a certified addictions recovery coach and and that's part of tailoring this to what everybody needs like my goodness I wish I could just release a bunch of videos and that be enough for people but it's not so us meeting with people and actually talking about their experience and getting some of their history so that'll be part of the you know kind of the intake process I want put it that way where it's like hey what is your you know are there any kind of mood disorders anxiety depression like those kind of how are you managing those right now and if you are on medications okay that's on the radar how's that going make sure you never miss those kinds of things and so we just we tailor it to each person so if a guy like sometimes I do feel some dep iive symptoms then we're battle planning so I use a war analogy a lot as you'll notice so hey okay what are we going to do when that Battlefield presents itself when there's a hill to be taken here like how are we going to take it and so making those plans or if we run into somebody where it's you know I was very faithful when I was younger man my connection with God is just really depleted almost to zero these days okay well then that's where we go you know we talk about that we're like okay what would that look like for you to increase that like what lands for you is it devotionals in the morning is it church on Sunday is it like what feeds you and if you don't know let's try some things and let's taste some things and let's see where God connects with you and those kinds of things I guess the the the long answer is you know we tailor it to each person and so like we do those kinds of screenings and we ask those kinds of questions because we want to have a really good lay of the land you know before we plot our course through this thing you know so everyone gets that unique plan I guess T process so so walk us through a little bit of like if someone were to come to you and say hey I need help in in I'm struggling with pornography what's kind of like your process and how does your program work yeah yeah so we would have an initial like just right from initial meeting would that be okay yeah yeah sure so we'd have an initial meeting with that person and we would uh we'd screen for fit for starters so you know Mary Christian man so married or in a very serious relationship Christian guy okay then you know good we would if trauma big trauma comes up in that first conversation we would talk about the possibility of ha lless and we will help you find and I'm involved in that someone comes and we'll help you find a therapy I come from that world so I know what to look for so I will help you find somebody maybe you're in your community to help with the trauma piece we do you know this other piece I think it's both so we'll go through that and then when a man comes in decides and this is the way I'll put it when it comes to the war analogies decides to draw that Line in the Sand and look that enemy in the eye and go like I'm done you know and then comes into this thing lots of different kind of components so overarching that you know that biological psychological spiritual yes but the actual nuts and bolts if it's okay I do so like number one when you come in immediately you have access to what I've called our battle tested road map we're calling it The pornfree Marriage system okay so this road map is a series of videos and it's psychoeducational stuff like week number one for instance I'll teach you about the biological brain how the neuro chemical dopamine Works how how how your brain is working against you on a physiological level like those kinds of things are there week one we talk about the spiritual aspect you know as I mentioned many times This Is War he's the general like what are we doing every day you know to connect with command like those kinds of things so there's there's a at the end of each week of this video set there are marching orders again back to this war thing you will know you know the man will know exactly what to do every single day of this journey because men know what they don't want to do right that's easy okay but what do I do okay I don't you know I don't want to keep hurting my wife I don't want to keep going this way what do I do here's exactly what you're going to do and after watching the video you know they'll make sense what I'm asking you to do okay so marching orders those kind of things the second thing you know in our program you get one-on-one time with a pornography recovery specialist again specifically trained for this that's our opportunity as I was saying earlier to tailor this thing to your specific needs because if it was just as easy as releasing videos trust me brother would have done that and I don't know bounced I guess like on a beach or whatever right but you know we tailor this to each man so you get some one-on-one time uh with with a with a specialized coach it's a six-month program that we offer and then there's continuation after that but for the first three months we want we want that man to get really good traction immediately right out of the gate we want to get him moving we're going to check him for the first three months we're going to check in every single day with him to make sure that things are going well it's very high touch very high support we want to get that movement right away so we check in every day for the first three months and if there's something going on we get in there with you like hey there is this struggle I'm having today then we'll get in with you and we'll coach you through it as I often say you know gone or the days of the you know see you next week in the therapy world like that's all done now we're going to bug you every single day for that first three months to make sure that you're on point it's a six-month program in total every week for that six months we have group meetings so lots of different group times available there's way too many guys to come in on one call yeah you come to a meeting another opportunity to check in be with community be with your platoon you know other fellow married Christian men fighting the same enemy together you know iron sharpens iron come into a group we check in with you again we do some recovery uh reflection question each week for sharing among the men and then we battle plan in group we're like hey looking forward to the next week before we meet again what's coming up anything on the radar this week you know we lots of guys travel for work and things and you know I remember one man specifically he's like yeah Tuesday night I'm in a hotel right and that can be hard for me in that hotel as I'm by myself and then this wonderful group this is where Community is so important these guys brother what do you need Tuesday night like can we phone you can we text you how do we help you win on Tuesday when you're alone so it's just beautiful thing and then you know the last piece is we have this private WhatsApp Community for like in the- moment support So as I was saying earlier you know guys even today we have guys reaching out in there and there's always someone around you know on this whats so if you need support someone's there you don't have to wait for a meeting you have to wait for anything so that's kind of the experience of a guy coming in just kind of run through it really quick yeah yeah it seems like there's a for the first three months there's a lot of high touch which is on purpose because that's where people struggle they feel alone they feel very shameful about this and they're just like the enemy loves to isolate someone and you're like combating those things I'm curious Brian you know as you've been doing this now for a while working with men when you are building that battle plan for them have you seen a common theme of where they fall typically so that like the listeners who are listening to this could be like hey I know you might not be able to work with Brian right now but there's this one thing that is common here's something I can help you with common when I think again so a lot of nuances but you know try to grab kind of the most common one I can think of right now might be uh I I think discouragement and lack of hope I think that I think the enemy well I don't think I Know The Enemy does this very well where because he's done this for a long time he knows how to do like remember what's his goal his goal is to separate husband and wife because if he can do that the family will fall yeah and as I often say pornography this is his sharpest sword he wants you to think that this is impossible he wants to highlight how many times have you tried to stop now and you haven't been up like you're never GNA get this right you may as well like in those times of weaknesses those times of weakness sorry or maybe Temptation coming up you may as well go for it right because listen you've tried all these times like it's hopeless your wife right now is so angry at you anyways like you're never going to be able to do this so I think him dashing that hope and really discouraging men is the biggest thing that I find and that's where again the community piece it's like guys here how I feel like let's let's and I think the way around that or maybe to help with that is we need to name it we need to shine light the enemy hates its own name yeah like right now I'm under attack right now this is what's happening I understand these are coming in through my thoughts and these kind of things I'm feeling discouraged and hopelessness like we're at War I'm right now I'm under attack and I need to you know connecting with somebody to share this burden and to have someone speak into that I think is huge so I think discouragement hopelessness because guys feel terrible that their wives are hurting because you know on on the wife's side of things common themes you know am I there's a okay commonly on her side if it's okay there's a roller coaster of emotions that comes when there's Discovery in the marriage of this stuff where some days she might feel kind of okay and other days there might be a lot of anger and she may not even want to see your face like here we go the enemy uses that for a man and goes like look at what a piece of insert you know word look what a piece of crap you are here and look what you've done like this woman who you've promised to protect and all these and maybe you're again 99% of your life might be on point right then there's this peace that's just so heavy and so deep but the enemy uses that to beat you down and and send you into that shame and to send you into that discouragement so if there was one thing to put my thumb on it would be that like have hope like remember who we have in this war we have the nuclear bomb however you want to put this right like the game stopper you know and so we just need to invite him in okay and I don't mean to hop on a pedestal or whatever but we need to invite him into this and remember who we have on our on our side and who's with us we can do all things through him just sometimes sometimes we don't think we're worthy enough in these kinds of things and we've all I think experience that in some way or another right like Lord like I'd love to come to you right now just what do you think of me or whatever I feel however you feel and there he is there's the enemy yeah that's right he doesn't he want to talk to you right now right we have this idea that if we're acting out to this stuff or whatever that oh you know I'm G to put God in the corner for and he doesn't see this stuff he knows everything he knows everything so invite him into this like let's be let's facing toward you know and and This Is War and he's the general and he's he's what we need yeah Brian I I love that analogy right because we sometimes forget that we are in a spiritual warfare and I think especially in our Western context right it we are so materialistic and it's all about Naval gazing and and self-indulgence that we actually forget like spiritual warfare is real and the enemy loves to attack Us in this area and just reminding ourselves like no no Christ is King he should be Lord of our lives and we should be asking him every day God how can I be more connected to you how do I fight this battle and then how do I be more present and purposeful with my wife and my kids and just the people around me so Brian this is huge I think for men who are listening to this I didn't encourage you if uh what Brian is saying is resonating with you and you need that kind of high touch accountability and structure man reach out to Brian and Brian as we wrap up here I am curious what if someone is interested in in learning more about what you're doing and how you're doing it what's the best way they could get in contact with you yeah thanks the best way would be to visit renewed hope coaching.com there's a video that goes a little bit more into the program that we run lots of testimonials we've had hundreds of men through this thing now so got we've got a lot of testimonials there that would be first step and if you feel like it's a fit then reach out and and and let's let's have a conversation about whether or not you know this this would be a fit for you and yeah that would be the best way to get hold of us awesome Brian thank you so much for breaking out of the mold you know when you and I first talked and you were like yeah I used to do therapy and now I'm in coaching I was really intrigued cuz I was like ooh I'm like you know there's so many people who want to go into therapy right now because they want to help but what you realize is like hey the system is broken and if we want to help people let's not be stuck in the system let's do what's right and I I love that about you and you've been so humble about it too you're just like man you know even before this call you and I were sharing ideas of how do how do we help more men you know be break free from this so Brian I appreciate you so much man thank you so much for what you're doing uh I won't hold it against you that you're Canadian so thanks brother but ultimately man I'm excited for what the Lord is doing man and how many men you you've gotten to help and will continue to help so again for those of you who are listening I'd encourage you check out the show notes right renewed hope what was it again sorry what was it yeah no worries yeah renewed hope coaching.com renewed hope coaching.com go check it out go reach out to Brian because I think that if you truly want transformation and your life to start changing you need that support system and you need those three pillars to really be intact so go reach out to him and for those of you who are still listening thank you thank you thank you so much for being a part of this and hopefully you got some great nuggets from Brian and as always I always want to remind you kill shame stand strong and be on Mission hope you guys have a great day and God bless amen thanks for joining us today if you found this episode helpful make sure to subscribe and leave a review remember killing shame isn't just about breaking free from the past it's about walking boldly into the future God has for me