The Fight for My Marriage: Breaking Free from Addiction by Anthony Curnutt
Rebuilding trust after pornography takes years, not conversations. What actually worked for a man whose wife found his browser history, and what did not.
Article
What rebuilding trust after pornography requires
Rebuilding trust after pornography is measured in years, not conversations. It takes the hiding ending permanently, a man other than your wife holding you accountable, and the wound underneath getting treated. Scripture ties healing to confession made to another person, not only to God (James 5:16).
Married, in ministry, and hiding
Anthony Curnutt leads Real Men Ministries, hosts the Real Men Talk podcast, and wrote Framework for Biblical Masculinity. He’s been married twenty-one years. About six years in, it nearly ended.
He was exposed to pornography at five years old. He’s careful about what he says regarding what happened to him at that age, but he makes clear the addiction didn’t begin as a choice. It began as the aftermath of something done to him.
By the time he married, he thought he’d left the pattern behind. Then they bought a computer, and it took him again within days. He’d find reasons to be at it after his wife and children went to bed.
The whole time, they were in ministry and in church, and nobody knew.
One night he forgot to clear the browser history. She found it.
His description of what that did is worth hearing precisely. In her mind, he says, he might as well have cheated on her. The lying and the hiding surfaced at the same moment as the behavior, so she wasn’t processing one betrayal but three.
He says the look on her face still haunts him fifteen years later, and the reason is specific. He was the man assigned to love her, protect her, and lead her, and he was the source of the injury.
The lie that lets a good man do this
Here’s the question I put to him, and it’s the one I’d put to you. How does a man determined that his kids will never experience divorce keep doing the thing most likely to cause one?
Anthony’s answer is that he didn’t categorize it as sexual sin at all. He knew it was wrong. He didn’t think it belonged in the same category as adultery, and he didn’t think it was doing damage, because it was contained.
Everybody does this. Men are visual. As long as it stays hidden, it stays harmless.
Underneath that reasoning sat a need for affirmation and a set of insecurities he couldn’t see yet.
Scripture doesn’t grant the containment premise. Nothing hidden stays hidden (Luke 8:17), and the plainer warning is that your sin will find you out (Numbers 32:23).
But I want to state Anthony’s version, because it’s sharper than the verses usually get preached: you cannot have a thriving marriage with secrets. The secret isn’t a manageable exception to intimacy. It’s the thing that makes intimacy impossible, because your wife is in a relationship with a version of you that you’re editing in real time.
Three things that actually worked
None of them is a filter.
Boundaries that stayed permanent. His wife has every password on his phone and every email account. He’s emphatic that this isn’t because she still suspects him almost twenty years later. It’s structural. The access is what keeps the trust intact rather than what proves it’s missing.
A man other than his wife. He found a godly man to mentor and confront him, and describes it in the terms he still uses: a Paul to his Timothy. This is the piece men most often skip. Anthony is careful about why it matters without it becoming a place to hide. There are parts of this another man can meet you in that your wife can’t, and that is not a reason to keep her uninformed.
Counseling, together. Not because the marriage had a communication problem, but because she needed help healing from what he’d done and he needed help healing from what had been done to him.
Then he adds the part most testimonies leave out. He failed again afterward.
What made the second failure different is that he didn’t hide it and took responsibility immediately. He says taking accountability was what changed his mental health, more than the streak itself.
If you’re waiting to be free before you’re honest, you have it exactly backward.
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What was actually underneath
When the healing work started, what surfaced wasn’t primarily the pornography.
It was childhood sexual abuse nobody in his life knew about, which he’d never prayed about and had largely acted as though didn’t exist. His image for it is a wound left covered, festering instead of closing.
David Powlison spent his career at CCEF arguing that the question is never only what a person did but what the heart was seeking or fearing underneath. Ed Welch’s Shame Interrupted addresses the other half: guilt says I did wrong, shame says I am wrong, and a man can be forgiven and still believe he’s defective.
Anthony had both running, and only one was visible.
The second thing that surfaced was theological, and it’s the more transferable finding. He’d never been taught what sex is for. What he absorbed growing up was that sex was bad and he should stay away from it, with no explanation beyond the prohibition. So he filed all of it in one category, concluded at fifteen that the adults had been wrong because the experience contradicted everything they’d told him, and stopped listening.
The correction took years: that sex is God’s design rather than a concession, that Scripture honors marriage and calls the marriage bed undefiled (Hebrews 13:4), and that inside a covenant it functions closer to worship than appetite.
That reframe produced the most painful realization in the conversation. Once he understood what it was for, he had to admit he’d been using his wife for self-gratification, and that functionally this wasn’t different from what he’d been doing alone. He describes the shame of recognizing it and the second apology he owed her, years after the first crisis.
He refuses the exit that offers him. He grants nobody taught him, and then says men take responsibility for their own actions anyway.
The walls
The line Anthony keeps returning to is that God can only heal what you let Him heal.
He’d built walls around his past, and those walls didn’t discriminate. They kept everyone out, God included.
His diagnosis of the halfway position is the sharpest thing he says. He describes mentoring a man who said he trusted God, except in one area he wanted to keep. Anthony’s response was that this isn’t partial trust. That’s where the distrust lives. The rest was never being tested.
He adds that God doesn’t force the door. You’re invited, strongly, and not compelled.
David’s prayer is the model, and it’s a request rather than a concession: search me and know my heart, see if there’s any grievous way in me (Psalm 139:23-24). That only makes sense from a man who has decided being fully known is safer than staying hidden.
Why you expect God to reject you
Men don’t withhold the worst thing because they think God can’t handle it. They withhold it because they expect to be rejected once it’s out.
Anthony’s explanation is that we project onto God what people have done to us. Rejection by humans becomes the anticipated response from God, automatically.
The text answers it directly. God demonstrated His love in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). The timing in that verse is the entire argument. The death came first, before the confession, before the cleanup, with full knowledge of everything that would follow.
Anthony pushes it one step further into how change actually happens. Sin is a heart problem, so a forced surrender changes nothing. God could compel you to stop and your heart would remain what it was. His illustration is deliberately mundane: a man who wanted a steak and was handed something else is still thinking about the steak.
What God wants is the whole man, and that requires you handing it over rather than having it taken.
It’s the kindness of God that leads to repentance (Romans 2:4). Not the wrath, and not the fear.
The three men you need
This is Anthony’s framework and it’s the most portable thing he teaches.
A Paul. A spiritual leader ahead of you who will correct you when you’re off the path.
A Timothy. Someone you’re pouring into. This holds you accountable in a direction most men overlook, because you want to be worth following. The goal is that your Timothy eventually surpasses you and becomes someone else’s Paul.
A Barnabas. A genuine friend who tells you the truth and stands beside you.
The roles rotate over a life, and a man should always have all three occupied.
Underneath it is his read on the enemy’s most effective work: convincing you that you’re alone in the fight. Ecclesiastes says the opposite plainly. Two are better than one, because if either falls the other lifts him up, and a cord of three strands isn’t quickly broken (Ecclesiastes 4:9-12). Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17).
One thing to do this week
Give someone access.
Not a promise. Access. Passwords, or a report, or a standing weekly conversation with a man who is allowed to ask you anything and will actually do it.
And here’s the cost, because there is one. You’re going to lose privacy you’re used to, permanently, and it will feel disproportionate for a long time before it feels normal. Anthony has lived with that arrangement for almost two decades. He doesn’t describe it as a punishment he’s serving. He describes it as the structure that holds the trust up.
If you’re the one who was betrayed and you’re reading this, hear the timeline honestly. He fell again after the first crisis. What changed wasn’t that he became perfect. It’s that he stopped hiding, and the difference between those two men is the entire thing.
What others intended for harm, God intended for good (Genesis 50:20). Anthony is still married, his kids never went through the divorce he feared, and he spends his time now helping men become leaders. He didn’t get there by hiding.
Kill shame. Stand strong in Christ. Live on mission.
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About Anthony Curnutt
Anthony Curnutt leads Real Men Ministries, hosts the Real Men Talk podcast, and is the author of Framework for Biblical Masculinity. He has been married twenty-one years and works with men through a private discipleship community focused on helping them step into spiritual leadership in their homes and churches.
Sources named in this article
- Anthony Curnutt, Real Men Ministries, author of Framework for Biblical Masculinity, in conversation on the Shame(less) Podcast
- David Powlison, on the motivations of the heart (Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation)
- Ed Welch, Shame Interrupted
Scripture: James 5:16; Luke 8:17; Numbers 32:23; Hebrews 13:4; Psalm 139:23-24; Romans 5:8; Romans 2:4; Ecclesiastes 4:9-12; Proverbs 27:17; Genesis 50:20.
Show Description
In this episode of The Shameless Podcast, Ken Freire interviews Anthony Curnutt on overcoming addiction, rebuilding trust in marriage, and embracing biblical masculinity. Learn how Anthony fought to restore his marriage after battling pornography addiction and how men can step into their God-given roles.
This conversation is a must-listen for men struggling with addiction, marriage challenges, or seeking biblical masculinity.
Chapters
- 00:00 Intro
- 00:29 Introduction to Anthony Kernut and His Journey
- 00:57 Struggles with Addiction and Marital Challenges
- 02:09 Hobbies and Personal Interests
- 04:08 Impact of Pornography Addiction on Marriage
- 08:57 Healing and Rebuilding Trust Through Faith
- 12:51 Accountability and Overcoming Past Wounds
- 20:52 Biblical Perspectives on Sex and Healing
- 35:56 Mission of Real Men Ministries
- 44:18 Outro
Transcript
welcome to the Shameless podcast where I help Christian men kill shame stand strong and live on Mission I'm your host Ken play and I'm bringing you real stories practical insights and biblical truths that equip you to break free from your sin shame and live a life of purpose let's step out of the Shadows together and Into the Light of Christ all right everybody welcome back to another episode and today I have with me Anthony who wow hold up how do you say your last name kette Kut yep just like it's spelled kerut Kut okay let me uh start that over again yes all right everybody welcome back to another episode of the Shameless podcast I'm super excited today I have Anthony kerut with me he is the leader of real men Ministries and the host of Real Men Talk podcast and he is an advocate for biblical masculinity and what I love about the conversation we're going to have today is just a fight for marriage and how Anthony almost uh lost his marriage but how he redeemed it and how God redeemed it healed him to be able to fight for it because of all the addiction that he struggled with so Anthony welcome to the podcast man how you doing today man I'm wonderful Ken thank you so much for allowing me you know for the invite for all of this I love what you're doing I love this ministry and I am excited for this conversation yeah dude I remember our first conversation you and I were just kept going on and on because we were like just kind of fired up we have very Kindred Spirits we want to see men to live out their god-given purpose and their calling so it's it's fun man yes but for those people who don't know you right and you know a lots of times we come into podcasts it can be a little bit more professional and stuff like that but we want to get to know the real Anthony so tell us something just like either weird or silly about Anthony that most people wouldn't know from just listening to the podcast content that we're going to talk about today yeah so I'm I'm a little bit of a nerd right I love I love Lord of the Rings I love Harry Potter I love you know I play video games you know and uh which is kind of odd because nobody ever gets to see that side of me you know what I mean and uh but yeah you know just just one of those things I enjoy doing oh oh that's awesome man okay so when you say you're like a nerd like how deep nerdom do you go down this rabbit hole is it like you've read all the books movies like you got like your own like shrine at home or no not that not that deep I would be you know but I've definitely seen all the movies I watch them all the time as a matter of fact my wife gets on to me every time you know me and the kids will sit down we'll have a Harry Potter with their Marathon or Lord of the Rings Marathon you know I've seen them all like a hundred times but uh but I've not read the books um a lot of people would say that you know I'm not really a fan whatever but anyways I I still love it right play some Call of Duty you know those types of things but no no shrines nothing like that I've got little kids so they tear up everything right and so yeah I don't even bother with any of that stuff but but yeah I used to be something real funny I used to be a video game collector I had all the systems right and then we started having kids and I was like okay it's time to get rid of all this stuff but yeah I've always been kind of they'll break it anyways at some point they'll find they're like oh what's this cartridge thing well they wouldn't even know what it's called right but they're like what is this yeah yeah let's just bid in it or you know you know throw in the toilet or you know something dude I have like so I have four kids and I have like my babies right every year for the last eight years they would grab my phone and they're just trying to like chew on it like right it's like dude I don't need your saliva all over the microphone that's right I can see them doing that with a cartridge yes 100% cool man okay so Anthony you're a big fan it sounds like every quarter you're doing some sort of marathon in your house so I I'll make sure to hit you up whenever I need a marathon buddy all right yes well Anthony man today we're going to talk about this topic about fighting for your marriage and how you had almost lost your marriage right so walk us through like what were the struggles you faced early on with addiction and how did that impact your life and marriage yeah and so really it stands back for me being very young right so I become addicted to pornography when I was 5 years old and because of that I had a very skewed view of women right even though I was kind of raised in church right um for the most part I i' never learned the importance of you know my parents are still so I come from a broken home I'm adopted by my dad but they got married whenever I was I don't know six or seven they've been married for 30 something years now right and so I've seen I've seen what that type of marriage looks like but I did not understand I didn't understand what it took right and because of my addiction to pornography it really it really just skewed my view of even my wife even you know we were married for I don't know six seven years before you know everything kind of expired and and I almost lost my marriage and I was like wait a minute what is what is what is going on and a lot of prayer a lot of stuff like that but that addiction to pornography it's so you know took me over I mean anybody who's ever de ever dealt with you know really it's not any different than any other addiction right you know it's on your mind all the time you just can't seem to get past you can't seem to get away from it you're constantly hiding so then comes shame then comes guilt then comes all those things which do not play very good part inside marriage right and not having a complete understanding of what a Biblical marriage in and of myself for myself was supposed to look like I you know it was just something that I had tucked off to the side I thought was okay you know well I mean I knew it was wrong I knew my addiction to pornography was wrong but I just thought it was going to be okay right as long as I kept everything hidden I wouldn't ever have to worry about it and you can't you cannot have a thriving marriage with secrets you can't it doesn't work that way eventually those secrets you know just like the Bible says you know your sins will find you out you know light will will shine on the sins and and um and so and that's exactly what had happened yeah so what did happen you know for six years you were hiding it you know it was always maybe on your phone or different things like that but you did a decent job at hiding in it but then six years later it came out what happened yeah so you know and really it's it's weird so this is pre- like phone days right you know because I'm that old and uh my wife and I we've been married for 21 years now and um and so you know we had been married for about six years and and um it was weird because I really thought that I was kind of over it right but what had happened was we didn't have a computer in the house for a long time and uh we had got this computer and stuff and instantly you know that that addiction just just snatched me up and I had I had been viewing it you know when the kids went to bed when she went to bed you know I'd find excuses to be on the computer all the time you know and stuff like that and and we um one day I forgot to delete my history and she got on there and she found it and it was it was devastating it just crushed her and that was that was a real a real eye opener right that that type of guilt and that type of Shame being exposed one it was so hard for her you know she didn't she can't she can't understand right what it is for a man to deal with pornography not not that I'm in any means uh being an advocate for it right and we'll discuss that in further detail later on the podcast but the struggle that is there I might as well just cheated on her in her mind I completely destroyed her trust I on top of lying to her hiding things from her all that stuff coming out all at the same time and it rocked her to the point that I mean we almost ended up in divorce and uh it was it was a terrifying moment for me because it's something that I never wanted you know I had experienced the you know my mother was divorced you know we come uh I come from a broken home even though my parents now that once they got married they've been married for a long time but I never wanted my kids to experience divorce right I I never wanted them to you know and here's this is my wife and we were in Ministry we were you know we were living a light we were in church we were doing all these things and nobody knew about it right no nobody did uh until they did and um all that hiding all that stuff it was just it was remembering the look on her face right when she discovered that I was lying to her and that I had been viewing this pornography and stuff it haunts me even to this day right we're talking you know almost 20 some you know 20 years later 15 years later and I never want her to experience that again right not only do I not want to experience I don't want her to experience that again right um that the person that supposed to love her the person that's supposed to protect her the person that's supposed to look after her and guide her spirit and and is I don't necessarily want to say a complete failure that's not true but completely crushed that trust that's supposed to be there right to her it felt like a betrayal right exactly and that's exactly what I had done is I had betrayed her and um and man there was a lot of healing that had to take place from that and and all that stuff but it was very difficult for a while yeah even for several years yeah so let's talk about you know let's um backpedal a little bit you said that like you knew you always wanted to not have a broken marriage you didn't want your kids to come up in a divorce family like that was something ingrained in you right but yet you still struggled with this sin sexual sin how did you like compartmentalize those two thoughts in your mind of like I'm going to go fall into sexual sin and I want to have a healthy thriving marriage right well first off I didn't view it as a sexual sin right my my view of sex was so distorted right it was so distorted I mean I knew it was a sin right and obviously it's a sexual sin but I never like that's not that was not my thought process yeah right that it was it was a sexual sin it you know I I just knew that I just I needed that right and really it has a lot to do with things that had happened in my past my need for affirmation all these different things my own insecurities were coming out and all of this right none of this stuff that I knew I I I didn't know this at the time right this is not something that that was in my thought process looking back and going through the healing process I realized what had stemmed the addiction in the first place at 5 years old right and we'll leave that to the imaginations uh the the things that had happened to me at a young age that would cause you to go into something like that like I didn't put the two together and growing in that addiction and not understanding that you know yes I understood that I needed to stop I did not view it as big of a deal as she did right which is part of the problem right you know uh at the time I did I didn't you know okay so yes obviously I'm hiding this from her but I didn't you know it's just it's something most everybody does right I mean we're dudes that's what that's how that's how we're geared right we're we're geared towards you know visual you know sexualization you know those types of things that process did not I mean it didn't I didn't go through that process until afterwards right yeah but it it is what had happened as a result of my addiction for such a long time yeah you know in a previous episode I interviewed um one of my uh pastors uh when I lived in Minnesota and we talked about the five lies that most you know people believe who are addicted to pornography and one of them was like the one that you mentioned like it's okay I'm not hurting anyone mhm right this is fine like it's just me I can handle this I can manage it but like this doesn't really affect it uh but it did right like it actually does and it's a lie right because it does it affects who you are as a person and how you show yourself to your wife right to the people around you so it it's one of those crazy lies that we think about as the LIE came to fruition and uncovered and now all all of a sudden your wife is like I I don't want anything to do with you uh and you saw the reality of divorce being there and losing you know the perfect image quote unquote perfect right we knew kids are chaos right but like this image of a intact family that was a turning point for you to say I got to go deal with this and you said something fascinating you were like hey I need to start going through the healing process of you know all these things what were some of the heal in Pro things that came about that you're like I need to be healed of this or I need to work through these items to truly see healing in addiction yeah well first off there was this process of rebuilding trust right you know that was that I understood that that was the first thing that needed to happen so we went we begin to go through that process we said lots and lots in lots of boundaries you know I was 26 at the time when this happened I'm now 4 to even to this day right my wife has every password on my phone every password to every email and it's not even that she doesn't trust me anymore this is the accountability boundaries that I have put in place right to make sure that trust is always intact and keeps me accountable right the second thing that I did is I found me accountable accountability partner outside of my wife right a man a a godly man that I could turn to right that could Mentor me that could push me to be better right you could say they were my Paul to my to me being the Timothy right they were you know Hey listen this has come to light this is what I'm dealing with I do not want to lose my marriage this is the most important thing that I have in my life right outside of Jesus Christ I I need to fix this I need help yeah and so talking those things out things that had happened in the past things that had things that I had done right all these different things and through that you know a lot of healing took place counseling that she and I went through you know marriage you know basically marriage counseling right it wasn't really marriage counseling then it was just people in the church that we went to but it was it's the same thing right yeah you know that you know Hey listen we're in this spot we understand that God has brought us together and we want to save this we need help right uh she needs help to heal from what I've done I need help to heal from my past and I need help to be accountable to to her right and so the process of this healing and it was painful right some of the stuff is still painful to talk about at times right but it's necessary right it is it's not fun it's not you know anything but it is necessary for us to do if we're going to be leaders if we expect the people around us to heal and we do then we have to heal also and if we continue to suppress if we continue to hide if we continue to push everything underneath that mental block just act like it's not there nothing never gets done and it's like open womb that just festers over time and that is what had happened to me you know and when all of it come out you know I went through this series of you know well I feel guil I feel as shamed no it's not my fault you know trying to reject you know accountability you all these things and finally when I just broke it all down and I was just like Jesus here like I can't I can't do this anymore I can't hang on to this I can't deal with the shame I can't deal with it you are the only person right you're the only way I'm going to be able to truly heal and this was a lot through guidance right this was a lot through uncover ing this this was a process of happening right because even after that it's not like the addiction just was gone right it didn't work that way it's not like the Lord was like oh okay the addiction was gone no I had to work through that right and I even you know I even failed again right now it was different because I didn't hide it I didn't you know all those different things I didn't you know it all that stuff I I learned from my mistakes but taking accountability for it was huge in my own mental health it was huge yeah what were you know as you think about the relapse right you relapsed you started to take ownership and you found healing talk to me a little bit more about the actual things you had to be healed from okay right cuz you were like hey I had to be healed from several things to finally be redeemed from it CU you were trying you were trying to repent you were trying to do all this but there were baggage and stuff that happened to you so what were some of those things that kind of got uncovered while you were going through the process right you know well things that had happened to me as a child you know even you know sexual abuse and different things like that that had happened that that I didn't know at a very young age right that I didn't even know that was still affecting me you know when all those things begin to come out when all those things begin to um no nobody in my life even knew about them you know and so when all those things begin to come out and they begin to you know having to be healed from those those things that I didn't even know again that I needed to be healed from that had haunt me they were just wounds that were just you know again I go back to the festering right they were just there and they were just they were so painful once once we started to uncover them you know and I was like man you know on top of on top of not understanding what Biblical sex look like right I go back to you know my view of sex was so dirty it was so dirty because of my addiction I did not understand what Biblical sex looked like I didn't understand that that sex was created by God it was it was ordained it was it was meant for something good you know all my life I'd always I'd always heard that you know you know you just hear if you grew up in the 80s and and 90s you know it was just sex is bad right you just don't have sex you just stay away from well why because we said so because the Bible says so right sex is bad and so you just put in the Sin category anything outside of sex bad you're like wait what exactly you know so 15 years old I'm like you guys are a bunch of idiots right sex is phenomenal I don't understand why you know why you guys are telling me this right so I'm discovering you know I started having sex when I was 15 years old and and I like that it just permeated from there right you know like my sexual my view of sex because I was never taught biblical sex right I was only taught that sex was bad well that's not true right sex is not bad sex is good it was created by God sex in the confines of marriage is in its perfected state right and through that it is so glorious it is a view of worship right now this is a long time coming right to get to that point it took a long time to get there because I had to slowly learn okay so what I did was wrong right my addiction is wrong but what God has created is not wrong right I I thought they were both the same thing so you know I was just using my wife just to get off I mean it was it for me it was no different than pornography it was no different than my addiction it it was just it was just me self-gratifying myself right um and you want to talk about a painful experience when I come to the realization that that is what I was doing right I was so I was so ashamed I was so I I I could not I was so disappointed in myself right and I can sit around and I can say that well nobody ever taught me and to where that may be true I pretty much grew up in the church nobody ever taught told me that sex was ordained and created by God for a good thing nobody ever told me that you don't have sex outside of marriage because it takes it out of its purpose the only thing I was ever told was sex was bad and I could do that but we're men we take responsibility for our own actions that's what a man does and so to have to sit down and be like man you know have to come and have that conversation with your wife I'm sorry I didn't you know and this is after this is years after even after that right and I'm going man I I have I have failed yet again just in a different way right and so healing from all of this stuff it was most definitely a process it was most definitely it was a you know not a fun process and you just continually learn right and here's the thing I'm sorry in the society in which we live pornography is so viewed as normal yeah it is it is everywhere it's in every movie you see it's in every you know you walk into the grocery store and it may not be fullon pornography but yoga pants and everything else that makes a man's mind just run wild right this is something even today and we're talking you know 15 years ago this is something even today that I have to keep under the blood consistently this is my cross that I have to bear every day I have to make a conscious decision this will not be the day that I fail right I will not do this again because I love Jesus because I love my wife and that is an intentional thing that we have to do yeah and that's huge man because I I want to talk about that here a little bit more because what I have found many times people are like oh I've been healed like it's one of those things we feel like oh once I'm Healed I'm done I can move on to something but like you said number one the healing process took a while right it took years and even as you've dealt with the initial blow of it right then it's like oh my gosh I found that I was just using my wife to get off and then it's like later on you're like man I'm not being a good enough husband and I get it I've been there too man where I felt like gosh God I'm just I know I should be better and I can't do this right but we thank the grace of God that he continually sanctifies us and showing us how we could be better right but it's still an ongoing battle so talk to us about guys who feel like they're stuck and they're struggling right now and they're like man I I've been trying so much to put this under the blood of Jesus but it's been really difficult and I just keep falling and I'm in the cycle of Shame and sin how do I get out of it and what can I start doing to really um see Victory right that's that's the most important question right and let me let me tell you something one of the most important things that you could do is surround yourself with Godly men there are things I have to be careful the way I say it because sometimes it comes out wrong there are things that other men can relate better with you than your wife can right now I'm not talking about hiding right I'm not talking about hiding things from your wife or anything like that that's not that's not what I'm talking about but men understand the struggle right and so to surround yourself with Godly men now that that word is important Godly men you need spiritual leaders in your life right you were called to be a spiritual leader you need a spiritual leader every football player needs a coach right Patrick Mahomes and all these people they have quarterback coaches right they don't play the game they teach them to be better we as men we need people in our we need Pauls in our life right we need people in our life that we can come to and be like hey I'm I am struggling or hey when they see us struggling and we not saying anything they come over and kick us in the seat of the pants right hey you're not on the right path and I'm telling you right now if you continue going down this path it is a path of death you've got to turn around from this right so the people that we surround oursel is huge it is a tool in our Arsenal that God has given us intentionally right he has intentionally surrounded us with other people to help us go long I heard a guy one time say if you want to go somewhere fast you go by yourself you want to go far you take people with you and that's true even in our spirituality you know if you want to grow as a spiritual leader you have to surround yourself with people who will push you who will help you who are going to spiritually guide you in the right direction that is part of one of the most important things that you could do right two you have to break down walls right healing God can only heal what you allow him to heal yeah okay for example you know all the things that had happened in my past I didn't even realize that they were affecting me I had never prayed for them I had never you know I mean obviously I had remembered them you know but I I just acted like they didn't exist right I built these walls up around them that kept everybody including God out right and it wasn't until I realized that I had those walls and I had to give this to Jesus I had to let those walls down that vulnerability is so difficult right it's it sucks right you know it's hard it's scary it's you know you don't really know right and and so you have to you have to get to a place where you're like Jesus I trust you with this right because that's really what it boils down to I trust you with this I I heard a guy I was just talking to a guy the other day I've been mentoring and stuff he's like I I trust God he's like but in this area I kind of want to hang on to I'm like so you're telling me you don't trust him in that area you know he's yeah why do you have to say it like that I'm like because that's that's what that is you know I'm not I'm not going to beat around the bush but it's it's true you know we're like okay God I want you to you know I want to be a good leader I want to do all this you can just have rain on my life except for this I'm keep these walls up I'm going to you know we're just going to act like this doesn't exist and God's like are you sure I mean he's he's a gentleman right he's not going to force you to do it but he highly encourages you to do it right you know and U and until we let him in there cannot be true healing right until we let those walls down and be like hey and don't get me wrong this is not an overnight process I only know this because of 15 years of failing to do so right of learning you know okay okay yes F fine I I'll let these walls down you can have it just leave me you know what I mean I'm tired of dealing with it and it is through that process that I have learned that every one of us every one of us every single one of us is wounded in some form of fashion right every one of us experience wounds because we live in a broken world right we are broken people married to Broken People in a broken world right every one of us come with baggage into our marriage every one of us come with wounds none of us gets out of this world uncap that's not the way it works all wounds operate the same right they may look different some wounds are bigger than others right some experiences are worse than others but the healing process is the same our trust in Jesus our trust in Jesus and this is crucial our trust in Jesus has to overcome the fear of us being vulnerable to ourselves yeah it has to be 100% man let me just let me just add on to that real quick because I think what's really important when people hear trust in Jesus right I think what they're afraid of is like well if I trust Jesus with this will he reject me will he not accept me for this thing and the truth is that like he died for you when you were your worst before this even happened like that's when he died so he's like he already knows that you have this he wants you to bring it to him so that he could say show you how he's already accepted you regardless of this sin or regardless of the wound that you have and so for those people who are going through that I just want to remind them like listen God knows and you and I both have have a similar story of abuse and I remember having to take those walls down and bringing them to the feet of Jesus and be like God I'm afraid you're going to reject me I'm afraid that people are going to reject me and not accept me for who I am I need your help will you please help me and just like I remember balling like it was like that nasty balling like this not you know yes but just giving it to Jesus it was immensely helpful yeah well and and the reason why we do that is because we project our insecurities that are brought onto us from other people onto the Lord right so if we've experienced rejection from other people we automatically put that on God every single time right but he's not human right he's God he loves us while we were yet sinners Christ died for us right yeah he knew he knew why he was hanging on the cross that you know 20 2,000 years later you were going to screw up right he knew that yeah yeah he already did right and so having to remove your and really what it is is we end up with these insecurities right and so because we are insecure in of ourselves we we don't want to risk the chance of of getting hurt right because we've been hurt by other people because we have trust issues because we have all these things and we project those onto God God's like I'm not I'm not those people right yeah I'm not I promise you can trust me with it but the thing is is that we have to willingly give it to him because if we don't right sin is a heart issue so if we don't give it to him our hearts never really change he could force us to give it over but your heart doesn't change right but when we willingly give ourselves over we are willingly giving our heart over to Jesus also you're giving all of you over and in that process Jesus can heal our hearts right heard a quote the other day uh I wish I could remember who said it and I'm paraphrasing but someone who's forced to do something is still the same mind right yeah this if you're forced to do something your mind doesn't change about the way that you wanted to do it right if I wanted if I wanted uh a steak for dinner that's what I wanted and you gave me Fried Chicken you know forc me to eat fried chicken I still wanted that steak right and that's just a you're still going to be thinking about the steak Yeah Yeah I'm still going to be thinking about the steak that's right and that's just a humorous way of putting it but it's true right and so Jesus wants us to be wholly healed right yeah when I say holy that's not h o l l y That's w h l y right holy he he wants all of us the our whole being healed right our mind our hearts our spirit our beings right he wants he wants true healing and only he can offer that yeah and I love that man that just the way you explained it like hey he wants all of us to be healed and he could force it but no one ever changes their mind or Heart by being forced right no they need to be wooed and I love how God's grace Woos us yes right where he's like hey I'm G to show you how amazing how loving how beautiful and how kindness like I love how Romans I think Romans 2 says it where it's say kindness that brings us to repentance right it's not his judgment it's not his wrath it's not the fear it's his kindness It's like we know that God is going to be holy and just but his kindness and patience to us that when we deserved wrath he actually gave us love that's what brings us to repentance man amen and I love that dude as we wrap up Anthony I know that there are a lot of people who are listening to this and they might be thinking to themselves like man Anthony's just dropping truth bombs left and right right and just reminding us that like we it is a process it is something that takes time but your story has been beautiful in the sense that man you didn't get divorced right you still have a healthy marriage you have healthy kids now you're helping men you know with overcoming this addiction and at the same time just becoming masculine men living out within their god-given design and calling so tell us a little bit more as we wrap up of what do you do now and how are you helping men yeah so I still surround myself with Godly men right um I heard somebody say the other day well I say the other day it's been a while back now but if you're the smartest person in the room you're in the wrong room right yeah spiritually is the same way you know every one of us and I preach this all the time on the podcast it's in the book it's in everything everybody needs three people in their lives and this is crucial to our success as men every one of us needs a Paul right we need a spiritual leader we need somebody who's going to kick us in the sea of the pants who's going to guide us who's going to spiritually set us on that path right every one of us need a Timothy somebody that we are pouring into somebody that keeps us accountable right we need to be in good standing because we need to help this person being good standing right I want to be I want to be the best that I can be for this person that I'm bringing up right because the goal is that the Timothy will surpass you right that that he becomes somebody's Paul and then you need a barnabus right you need somebody who is a true friend who's not afraid to speak truth to you he's not somebody that comes alongside you that is willing to fight with you that it's going to go and Ministry with you that all these people and obviously those positions change over time again hopefully your Timothy becomes somebody else's Paul someday right and they outgrow you hopefully you outgrow your Paul and have to get a new one those positions change but we should consistently be seeking those positions out we should always have a spiritual leader we should always have somebody we're poured into we should always have a friend men's group something that people that you can go to that is Judgment free and be like hey guys I need you right now I I just need somebody in my corner I just need somebody to be praying and to have those people that is crucial to Our Success you will never let me put it this way Satan's greatest tool right we know that he's a liar greatest thing that he's ever deceived of is to think that we're alone in a fight yeah 100% And that's yeah and he does it to all of us right but that's not it's not true we are not alone in our fight we have God has surrounded us with people right he has surrounded us with people to to lift us up you know he's given us pastors he's given us mentors he's given us friends he's given us you know younger people for us to pour into and to do that be in your word right I is is another thing that be a student of the word right and whenever I say a student of the word I I have a friend of mine he's like a PhD guy right you know and he he reads a chapter of the Old Testament chapter of New Testament chapter of proverbs and chapter of Psalms every day I don't I don't work that way I'm a Community College Dropout from Southeast Missouri right and the reason why I'm saying this is because it's not about the quantity it's about the quality right I I'll read three or four verses and I will dissect them I have become a student of the word it may take me you know six times as long to go through the Bible as what it does him but it doesn't matter right I am consistently striving to grow closer to Jesus right to be better tomorrow than I was today that's that should always be on our minds right and the only way you're going to do that is to be a student of the word right so and the reason why I say it that way because a lot of times whenever I say you you know get in your word people think about oh well I need to read a chapter a day or I need you know read the Bible in a year or I need no that's not it it's all about what is best for you you know what can you do if you can read a chapter a day and and you that's that's how you're doing your best to get in the word then that's fine right but I don't I also don't want people to be overwhelmed men to be overwhelmed to be like I can't that's I'll never retain all of that right they're like I'm already working 10 hours a day got a family you want me to read for 3 hours the word like what am I waking up by four like what am I doing here you know exactly exactly just make it part of your day and make it start it with your day right yeah that it's crucial because it's like uh getting a song stuck in your head right if you're on your way to work or whatever you know you're playing radio and you get the song stuck in your head if you start your morning off with it right it you can Maul on it and chew on it all day and sometimes I've had the greatest Revelations where I've read a verse and I thought I have no idea what the heck I just wrote read right I have no idea what's going on here and I just think about it all day and then all of a sudden it was like boom it hits you I got it right I got it you know and it was like two verses and and that's what I found for me healing going back to the healing process right when I had the word in me it like just came alive and it started to talk to me when all these insecurities and all these pains started to come about man so I love that you were talking about that like being a student of the word yes Anthony as we wrap up here people can tell you're passionate you're excited about this you know topic and stuff like that what's the best way to reach out to you to get more insight and learn from you yeah man um you know we have we have so much right so obviously our website framework or um our website is rman ministries.
us um have a book out called framework for biblical masculinity you can there's a link on on the website or you can go to Amazon you just type in the book or my name we have a Facebook group we have a private Facebook group called ran Ministries becoming a spiritual leader where we are consistently trying to disciple men becoming Godly men right you can become a part of that you can just hit me up on Facebook you know R Ministries you know you just just hler us you know we're on Instagram we're on Tik Tok we're on you know um X I always want to call it Twitter actually you know we're we're on all those things right you can reach out to us anywhere and uh I would love to hear from if you have any questions if you have if if any anybody needs any guidance right we're all in the same fight we're all trying to become the leaders God has called us to be become the husbands the fathers that God has called us to be to encourage the people around us and and that is our mission as Roman Ministries is to help men become those spiritual leaders that God has called them to be I love it man and Anthony thank you so much for pouring into men right cuz not a lot of people want to do that they just forget or they're just too scared and you decided to step into the chaos the fear and said no no I'm going to do this I'm going to help men deal with their struggles and become real men right real men who want to love God and love the people around them so thank you man it's always great to meet a brother in arms who's trying to fight the same fight with you know so kind of like you're were saying like sometimes we can feel alone it's like no no the more we have men around us fighting that fight the better we're we are that's exactly right so thank you man thank you you're doing that and I can't wait till one day for us to connect man uh in person and have some fun but for those of you again reach out to him real men's Ministries uh I'll put all that in the show notes for all of you who are listening and be encouraged by what Anthony's been talking about the reality that like you may feel like your marriage is in shambles you may feel like you're hiding this sin there may be wounds in your past like none of those things are too far from God to redeem so if you're listening to this reach out to Anthony reach out to me reach out to whoever and start working through the healing process because I guarantee you God can redeem you and God Can Transform everything and you can look at this on the other side of the fence and be like wow I almost lost it and I I knew what God meant for evil well not God meant for evil what man meant for evil God made for good and that's the beauty of what we're talking about here so Anthony thank you again so much for your time here and for those of you who are listening I'll see you back next week and until then remember to kill shame stand strong and be on Mission hope you guys have a great day and God bless thanks for joining us today have you found this episode helpful make sure to subscribe and leave a review remember killing shame isn't just about Breaking Free From the Past it's about walking boldly into the future God has for you