Healing ED Without Pills: Shawn Bonneteau’s Journey to Wholeness

Transcript

welcome to the Shameless podcast where I help Christian men kill shame stand strong and live on Mission I'm your host Ken play and I'm bringing you real stories practical insights and biblical truths that equip you to break free from your sin shame and live a life of purpose let's step out of the Shadows together and Into the Light of Christ all right everybody welcome back to another episode and this is going to be a fire episode it's going to be a sensitive topic but it's going to be a fantastic episode today I have with me Shan Bono he is a Christian coach who helps men overcome sexual addiction and erectile dysfunction which is going to be the topic of today it's a sensitive topic because a lot of men don't like talking about it and Sean I'm sure you could attest to that but before we go deep diving into the conversation can you tell people something fun about yourself yes I can well something funny maybe we'll start with real quick is um so was for a season I was known as like the erectile dysfunction guy because no one was really talking about it and it was a part of my story started sharing about it and got all these podcast opportunities so that's going be a funny thing but a fun thing is I live in the Czech Republic I'm Canadian started in Vancouver moved to Halifax Nova Scotia and then now I live in Czech and that's a big part of my wife's check but even further felt the calling to do ministry out here on top of what I do with deep clean and the running joke is that uh we're probably not going to go any further east it's probably as far as we go unless God has other plans oh I love it man I love it so you're doing a lot of great work uh both overseas and with men uh and today the topic that we're going to talk about is what you said you used to be the erectile dysfunction right yeah yeah yeah before we go into your story can you share for those people who might be listening uh I don't want to ever assume people know what it is because some people may actually just be so shameful about it that they don't even know but what is a retile dysfunction and how does it like come out you know yeah for most men yeah it's helpful to differentiate the two types there's porn induc erectile dysfunction also known as Pi and then there's the more psychological erectile dysfunction sometimes is called psychological impotence uh so the the porn and de side of it is a lot more uh tied to the chemical imbalances with dopamine and oxytocin the conditioning of what we do with masturbation but they do both have kind of the same problem where it boils down to the either the inability to get an erection or the inability to stay erect while having intercourse and then there's also kind of the other areas of delayed ejaculation and premature ejaculation which are tied to tied to Ed as well but that would be like what Ed is and the two types of it just boils down to Simply put it's hard to get an erection or it's hard to keep an erection okay now when we talk about this if you follow anything for men or comedy or crft things it's always about having a heart on that's something that we men pride ourselves in and there's a lot of Shame yeah for men having erectile dysfunction can you give us a little bit of your backstory of yeah how did this start with you yeah so much shame I'll kind of build that up to the kind of the crescendo of how I experience probably more shame than even what most guys experience because of the work that I do but yeah like first time I might have experienced e late teens early 20s I never really knew much about the realm of erection struggles no one ever talked to me about them uh I was watching pornography since I was 10 and masturbating to it so you know with pornography it's very rare that you would have erection problems because there's always new video to watch there's always something more grotesque or risky to see you can go into different Realms that will never cause a problem for the connectors of your penis and your brain so you know until I started to actually explore the Physical Realm of my sexual addiction I I didn't know any better so when I started to do that the first time I ever did actually have sexual intercourse um there was a bit of a rectile dysfunction but I actually had delayed ejaculation where I couldn't ejaculate and as was like a healthy 19-year-old dude like Fitness gurus athlete pretty shocking pretty terrifying and that was really a wakeup call I wasn't a Christian at the time uh had had had an idea that you know God existed but I thought he hated me he was mad at me he was just kind of this cruel iron fist guy and it was just a bad Dynamic that I had with him because of a lot of pain trauma lack of knowledge and understanding but that first experience of anything around a problem with my penis was what most you know at least unchristian men would Pride themselves on is that first time you have sex with somebody and it was so embarrassing and I was so ashamed The Story Goes even deeper into some of the shame with like at a party in in my friend's bathroom just really all these ties of just a lot of Shame and embarrassment around my first experience it became quite traumatic as well which led to even more struggles with my erections but it became a problem probably more obvious you know not drunk not at a party you know these other things when I had a girlfriend at the time uh I I wouldn't say we were serious in the sense where I wanted to get married but she was obviously talking about marriage we were together long enough or that made sense and there was just challenges with erectile dysfunction along the way some of it was because I had watched porn earlier that day or the day before and naturally just wasn't uh ready to have sex or have intercourse or I just felt so much shame but other times it was just I felt so much shame around myself and I felt pressure to perform and just didn't feel feel confident in the relationship and you can just see how much of it is tied to different areas of the anxiety we feel the pressure we feel the things that we've already done or haven't done the shame and that was a lot of my story and as I unpacked like what is Ed for me it really boiled down to the fears I had deep within myself and then also the shame around I don't think I'm good enough I don't think I can perform and there's this cultural norm of like what performance even looks like and that's where there's so much pressure and so much shame for men especially Christian or non-Christian it's a really murky murky water yeah man Sean first of all thank you for sharing that and I know you've shared your story quite a bit but for someone who's listening to that that might be the first time that they've been like oh my gosh there's someone who gets me right like that's exactly with what I struggle with when it first started to happen you know what were kind of some of the emotions and you mentioned the fear and the shame but like I I could imagine myself like oh crap what the heck is going on just kind of walk us through your mindset and what was happening yeah the uh deeper reality of it was just this idea that I must be flawed like something's wrong with me whatever I've done with the last 10 years of my life it's ruined me I am no good and it really started to destroy me in the sense of I'm flawed I I'm helpless I'm hopeless I have no idea what to do do I don't even know if I'm fixable and once you fall into those places of defeatism and victim it's really hard to do anything well that's when I started like binge eating you know I always tell people when I met my wife I was eating a tub of ice cream almost every night like I was just in a bad season in my early 20s just feeling all the shame from these sexual struggles very defeated and just riddled with anxiety okay so there's like emotion after emotion after emotion that just kept piling up yeah what was the breaking point where you were like I need to tell someone or I need to go find help yeah it started with pornography that was I'll say around 22 2122 um I had told uh a couple of mentors in my life some like trusted friends but it was more of just opening up that I'm struggling it wasn't them helping me it wasn't me really doing much with it but it was a stepping stone in the right direction and it was probably but maybe I don't know six months later or so I actually gave my life to the Lord and got baptized and that really opened up more doors to you know the Christian world and how they handle addictions and whatnot and sure I have some beef against how the church handles addictions but it was a place where wow they're talking about Jesus being the answer not my harder work they're talking about getting together and confessing and repenting and supporting one another so I actually started going to a like a Monday night support group for addictions that was a place where I remember the first night going there I had no intention of telling anybody about my struggle I think maybe three four weeks later I I was able to open up and realize it felt so good to be in a room of guys and realize we're all here for each other and that actually led to me telling uh my girlfriend at the time Helena about the reality of my struggle when we first met that didn't come out it was probably a month and a half or two months after we met and I I wish I communicated with her more clearly of the severity of my struggle but I did I did tell her that I was struggling I was going to a support group and just that alone was a step in the right direction obviously looking back I wish I would have went a little deeper but I just didn't know how to and sometimes we can beat ourselves up so much with I should have done this and I should have done that and I could play that game all day long but I know I did do something and it was a step in the right direction which slowly I became more vulnerable I started meeting with another a new Mentor who understood addictions and that really was some of the Catalyst to where I'm at today man that's awesome dude the mentorship the community the vulnerability all those are huge pieces for everyone trying to find Freedom but I I want to hone in on something you said and it was the condemnation you felt yeah yeah and it seemed like there was a lot of that prior to getting saved but even when you got saved where you're just like I feel like I should be doing better or I should be healing faster or I should confess more how did you overcome the condemnation yeah yeah we call that we call that shooting all over yourselves in the coaching world it's no good it's not a fun thing to do um man really really honestly that was something that I didn't even really figure out fully until two or three years ago like I was probably four and a half five years free from porn and masturbation overcome rectile dysfunction and there were still parts of my spirit that were so burdened by a sense of like I need to work harder I need to make more time for the Lord I need to do this I should do that and we can certainly talk more a bit of a longer answer and it'll probably tie into more of where we're going but a lot of that was overcoming the lies pinpointing the lies dealing with like soul level stuff with some Retreats I went on starting to look at the mother wound and how I had a lot of fear around safety and the very essence of when you feel unsafe as a human you're in a constant disregulated I had never really thought of it that way I always thought my main problem was with my dad sure he contributed to my struggles but I would probably actually say it was more 80% mom 20% dad and when I realized that four or five years into being free from porn I was like what did I miss like am I just dumb like actually a lot of those am I just flawed mindset came back and I had to really learn about God's timing and God's grace and that it doesn't matter if I miss something God's going to do something now and I really had to start learning how to retrain the way I see mistakes I might have made because growing up when I made a mistake my mom made sure I knew about it God God so different in that way and that's actually what helped me overcome things like erectile dysfunction and addiction in of itself okay so you talked about your mother wound and how that has been a major contributor to it it was a coping mechanism so pornography all these things were A coping mechanism for a mother wound that you had and how she treated you how you didn't feel unsafe and then it built this cycle of sooner or later erectile dysfunction right yep yeah naturally it was that idea of like I am not safe to fail I'm not safe to tell people that I'm not okay this Mantra a lot of young people come up with if it's going to be it's up to me and I really built that belief system as a child that I can't relying on Mom I don't know if she's going to be nice mom today or crazy mom today you know I saw my dad watching porn after about when I was 10 years old he became quite distant from me emotionally and I just didn't know who I could go to when I had failures and struggles so I learned to go to porn I learned to masturbate I learned to play drums and smash symbols because I was so angry you know all these ways of coping that sure like they worked in the moment but I wasn't learning how to actually be a healthier person yeah and that healthier person started to produce the erectile dysfunction ultimately that was kind of the thing and as you think about your life when you started to get Freedom right you started to get freedom from pornography from masturbation how did you start healing from erectile dysfunction cuz you know a lot of people would say well just go get some pills go take care of yourself that way and you'll be fine but you actually didn't do any pills yeah a lot of it was spiritual healing and psychological healing that you went through exactly yeah yeah it was when I started started to realize that my wife is a very safe person but there's a part of me that doesn't believe she's a safe person and I started to see this polarizing opposites of part of me knows that I can tell her anything that she's there for me when I fail but there was a sliver inside of me that believed that she was going to treat me like my mom and we started to have I'd say once a week I was having issues with archal dysfunction where we would start having sex and I wasn't able to continue and I didn't know how to talk to my wife about it I didn't know what to do about it no one was talking about it hence being the Ed guy and I just felt so stupid like here I am like called to coach guys with sexual struggles I've quit pornography and masturbation I've been told that once you do that all this other stuff is taken care of again like what is wrong with me how do I not know any better and it was a place of a lot of shame I questioned my calling often I I felt like yeah like Helena we could try having sex I don't really know like how it's going to go I just didn't have language for where to go with that because I didn't want to tell her the deeper internal turmoil I was having it could have been about work it could have been about a friendship it could have been something that's coming up about my mom and I just didn't feel like I could tell her that because there was that sliver inside of me that believed if I tell her what I'm thinking about she's going to say that like oh you don't think I'm attractive enough or I can't believe like you know you do the stuff for your job I can't believe you would do that and that was like so wild to think that that part of me was so powerful the defining factor for me was actually I found two people to talk to specifically about Ed one of them was from Family Life Canada my wife and I had a monthly marriage mentor and the couple that ran that organization I think they just um actually gave up the full leadership they retired but it was a guy named Neil Josephson he just him and his wife just spoke such life into our marriage in ways that you just like that's just treasure like they were just phenomenal people and then from there I ended up working with a guy named Greg Oliver who's been on the deep clean podcast my podcast just's a fantastic guy he runs awaken Ministries out of Alabama Birmingham and I think him and I only had two or three sessions but he just spoke to the exact area that I was missing because he also does the same work that I do and I just I needed somebody who got me and he God just brought into my life at the perfect time and he hit on a couple things that no one had ever hit on before and no joke like a month later I was I was free completely free I think I maybe had like one or two issues in the next year or so and I I've had almost I think maybe I've had one Ed situation which I wouldn't even call an ed situation because I was able to talk about it it was just the reality was it was just a very stressful situation that naturally would cause anybody turmoil but it's been like four years like it's it's incredible dude that's awesome man what what were the things that he said to you that really changed and made it so pivotal that like it yeah it was almost like God had Neil and Greg on the same brain wave like Neil was talking about this concept of getting on the same page sexually in in communicating obviously that's a common thing people would say to somebody but he said it in a way that's stuck differently kind of like this concept of like a sexual template which is what I teach now but he really promoted this idea as well as Greg they both came together separately and we're just talking about these stages of how to overcome really what is at the heart of Ed in my scenario was fears lies and unhealthy expectations so one of the main steps that uh H and I did we did them separately and they came together and this is part of my teaching now is um it's called what's in the way and both parties will go on their own for whatever half hour or a couple of days and just write out all the fears about their sex life all the lies about their sex life all the expectations about their sex life and they'll bring it together in a safe place where they've already prepared this place where this is a safe place where we're not going to defend anything we're not going to justify we're just going to share the reality of what's going on inside when I start thinking about having sex when I start thinking about you and I want like this is not about you that that that's what's so crazy about this problem this isn't about you this is actually just about something inside of me so hun and I both did that and there's obviously the famous quote you know you want to hear from the horse's mouth there was something so special about telling Helena I don't think that you like me when I can't get an erection or when you don't orgasm I I believe you think less of me as a man and for her to tell me word for word not just like oh I don't think that Sean but Sean I I love you I love intimacy with you I love sex with you regardless of what happens I love you and to have that come in and completely dilute and destroy the lie or the fear it was so lifechanging because I just never had that in my life with women like my mom my sisters women growing up I was always like betrayed and there was always unsafety around me I was always lied to and that was that sliver inside of me and ala just came in just destroyed whatever that sliver was with love man it sounds like one your wife is amazing yes praise God man praise God but it's beautiful how wives do that right I I had another guest that we had a similar conversation about how wives just they know how to say certain things they could either Speak life or death but when they speak life it's like we step up to another level of our transformation and I love how you said this because the way I think about it right is that one you had a safe space to communicate your fears your lies and just any expectations that you had and then not only that she didn't judge you for those she didn't be like oh yeah actually that you know let's add more to it yeah there was no judgment but then the the key or the Lynch pin was that she spoke truth into those lies exctly and those fears um did you find that you guys had to do this process several times like for some people who might be struggling is this like a continual thing is this a one-time thing how does that typically work yeah that's a great question and that's going to be probably more situational like I was 3 years sober and free from porn so like hen and I had had some really deep conversations like we were we trusted each other we had a good thing going right A lot of times when I'm working with people and doing this sexual template it's usually like they're just quitting porn there's not much trust there's not much safety so yes I would say that these things are being reviewed often maybe monthly you have a date night over wine and you re you rekindle that fire of that sexual template but yeah Helen and I would definitely go back to it and tweak it maybe once a year or something or when it just seemed like something was off but we ended up taking that model and putting it into different areas of our life as well it's like what are the lies and the fears and the way of us enjoying adventure together or whatever else and it's just really cool that that same concept applies in all facets but sex is the one area obviously I just struggled so much to talk about so yeah it could be a monthly conversation not so much so that it feels like like it has to happen I think it just needs to feel natural and that's why I'm a big fan of sexual template being it's between you and your wife and the Lord and that's really like where we make the marriage bed healthy is when it's that three almost that Triune element where it's husband wife and the Lord and as long as all three are honored and glorified and respected man it's so beautiful I love it man and I want to do a little Deep dive on the sexual template here in a second but there's something that you said that sparked my mind is like why do you feel like for men it's so hard to talk about sex and sexual intimacy right it seems like we can talk about a lot of other things but when it comes to sexual intimacy there seems to be barriers there absolutely can you speak into that a little bit yeah yeah I think the main two would be the fear of rejection and the fear of failure it just plagues all men where there's just such uh like we've all had fears or so we've all had failures and rejection in our child childhood and the reality is is a lot of the things that we think we failed in and were rejected by weren't actually rejection or fear we just didn't or failure we just didn't have anybody process those things with us I was just talking to a client earlier today where he said he got rejected by asking a girl out the other day and I had to ask him like did you get rejected or did you feel rejected it's very different right somebody tells us no it's not a rejection but we might feel rejected and I think a lot of men have been you know buying into this concept in the world today where you have depression you have you know an anxiety disorder you have all these problems when ultimately our feelings have began to control what's true and we've separated you know what we feel is true from what is true and we have to reclaim how to live in what is true and the only way to do that is to actually like reparent those child parts of us so fear of failure fear of rejection by far are the reasons why talking about anything intimate is so scary H that that's such a great Insight you know and I was thinking about what you what you just said the perception versus the reality yes right and how much perception had hindered me a lot for years in actually walking through fear of rejection in free failure and if I'm honest even today right uh whenever it comes to work or anything you know I have another podcast that I do with my work and we talk a lot about you know goal achievement and all this fun stuff but one of the things that that I talk about is just fear failure is my number one thing that I hate I'm always striving because I I I call myself a recovering perfectionist always striving to try to be the best at everything that I do and if I can't there's all these little lies that come in like you'll never be good enough you'll never get to the top you'll never do this XYZ exactly and I can see how that permeates intimacy as well absolutely man yeah that's exactly what it is and it builds up all that pressure and then you have this expectation that no one can hit but you think you have to hit it and then there's just no way you're going to be able to get aroused yeah and and that's where you came in with the sexual template right so walk everybody through what is the sexual template and how do you use it yeah definitely so I have a mini course that I created many years ago it's very outdated in video quality but the content is still good which is awesome but yeah again it was a mix of what Neil taught me what Greg taught me I kind of just put it into a structure Step One is like what is our purpose in our sex life as a couple a lot of couples don't even really know what's their purpose together ultimately we want to look biblically but we also want to look at each other's own desires each other's passions and desires to say it's to serve one another what does that mean to us we work with guys they create a mission statement a lot of times you hear the cliche mission statement I want to be a man of God and a man of integrity it's like that's cool but what do those words even mean to you like so it's like I want to serve my wife I want to be a leader of the house that's cool but like anyone can say that like what does that really mean so Step One is defining like what's our purpose as a couple in our sex life with intimacy why do we care about it why does it matter to us why are we going to make time for it why are we going to push through discomfort to make it a priority so that's step one and then step two is the what's in the way uh definitely my favorite step which is uh the uncomfortable step but what's in the way all the lies all the fears all the expectations and the more the marrier get them all out like we want to expose that stuff Satan loves to pray on these ideas these thoughts these hears that stay within us so we need to get them out even if they don't get dealt with right away get them out get them somewhere such a beauty in that then the third step is what is true what is factual and that's where the wife would speak to the husband the husband would speak to the wife of combating those lies with what is true not just with the not just like like if my wife comes to me I'm such a bad mom it's like telling her that she's not a bad mom sure like that that's okay to then lead into what she actually is but a lot of times we actually don't know how to affirm people we often say like you're not that it's like that's not an affirmation you're not actually telling them what they are so we need to learn how to do that in a really uh beautiful way and I think what's one of the easiest concepts for married guys my wife would come to me and say I just feel like a terrible mom today I'm like you're not a terrible mom Helena you are a beautiful mom that I've seen do some incredible things but you're also a flawed person so like tell me about some of the struggles today yeah it's just these opportunities to have those conversations you know it's funny cuz I'm great at a lot of things and you know if I get in front of you in these conversations I could be so encouraging so exhorting and people are like wow Ken you're amazing but my wife she uh one of her love languages is words of affirmation yeah yeah and I feel like throughout the day I have nothing and I would say I fall into that trap I'm like oh you're not a bad mom or if I'm in a bad mood sometimes I'd be like you could have done better today yeah and that's shame on me that's actually appropriate shame where I need to affirm her better I need to actually be like no no I love how you said it it's not just a negative you have to talk about the positive yeah absolutely man absolutely and speaking truth so for you Sean as you think about this sexual template how do you help men who are like just stuck right you know those who are like I I'm listening to this and they're like I need your help I need what you have but I'm just afraid to actually share my struggles yeah right because I don't have a Helena right I don't have Bethany which is my wife I don't have those people who I could share this stuff with I don't have individuals that I feel comfortable with and I've never felt what you have felt before where do I start yeah 100% uh just real quick Ken those are the three main steps the the the other three steps of the sexual template totally fine um it's uh defining what are your expectations for uh sex like what what you feel is healthy and what you feel is unhealthy and then talking about those together to find out like what meets that like ideal requirement of honoring the marriage bed with the Lord and then the next step is defining what you like what you want and what you need realizing that those are all different things what you need might be intimacy what you want might be this type of sexual encounter but that might not be what your wife wants and what needs is also intimacy so how do you get that need met through the correct wants it's a beautiful conversation and then ultimately the last step is just putting it all together and creating this sexual template to say this is what sex looks like between Shawn and Helena and whatever anyone else is telling us they like to do it doesn't really matter because we've done this with the Lord and we can just rest in that yeah okay so before we talk about the steps of helping people I like those last three steps this might sound like a silly question but I'm just thinking as a guy if I struggled with erectile dysfunction would someone and has any of your clients ever come to you and been like you know what my mission statement is that I want to be able to ejaculate with my wife and like this is what I want and this is a need or like do they ever have like duration of time where they're like you know what I wish I could last at least 20 minutes if they struggle with premature ejaculation or whatever those things yeah is that kind of the stuff that you're like saying hey just get all that stuff out in the open do you have clients who come to you and tell you that stuff I'm just curious how that up yeah yeah I'm a big fan of getting everything out in the open and that creates the conversation of what feels helpful what feels exciting what meets the desires of both parties so I'm always a big fan of more the better like I remember being at a retreat for a week once I was called restoring the foundations and it was all about like the Deep areas of the soul and one of the days when I was on soul ties and I had to fill out this worksheet for breaking soul ties and I think I had 60 different things that I felt like my soul must be tied to because I you know had romantic relationships or these porn websites or I can't seem to say no to these things as often as I'd like to and the guy running the retreat was like man I think this is the most we've ever had someone write down I was like everybody must be lying like you know like I I'm a like I was three years four yeah four years sober and free from porn like if I'm writing 60 things down like I'm imagining most guys have a lot more than that yeah oh man okay so you know as you think about that part of you was like it sounds like you're more of a vulnerable individual you're in tune with your emotions as well a little bit more you recognize that you need that healing yeah right so going back to that other question how do you get other guys to get to that place where they're like yeah I need to take steps to to heal yeah first step for me is making sure that if they're uncomfortable we can do some of those steps just between him and I where he'll write down what's in the way we'll talk through it we'll kind of just lay some of that out and get him used to that language there's two other modalities that are really beautiful my favorite one is inner child healing where we'll go back to not just memories but like the boy himself that felt fear that felt unsafe that felt rejected in the face of potentially being with other women and will reparent that boy separating what feels true from what is true so that when he's speaking with his wife he can show up as an adult rather than a little boy and then there's another modality called empty chair therapy which is just as great concept where you kind of close your eyes imagine like two chairs across from each other and you can kind of practice having these sorts of conversations with that person you hope to talk to where you know empty chair therapy is amazing for forgiving people like practicing forgiveness or doing these sorts of conversations where like you're imagining telling your wife that you're afraid to start having sex because you might not get an erection like it's so amazing just to have that safe space in your mind and you know the the imagin part of the brain is where trauma is stored so the more we can tap into that I've just seen the Lord Heal guys in ways that talk therapy just doesn't heal yeah and you know one of the things about that particular scenario that you just talked about that I've done with people is hey imagine you're talking to the individual yes tell me what you think they're actually going to say to you and it uncovers these lies right and sometimes they're true sometimes you know people are not perfect they're not going to say but at least now we are able to you know preemptively prepare them if those things are true but then when the lies come kind of like what Helena did with you right she's like no no no that right there is not true let me speak truth into it and that's where I've seen a lot of the transformation happen yeah so cool Ken that's awesome man I'm a I'm a huge fan of preparing guys when they're about to talk to somebody about forgiveness or these sorts of conversations I also prepare them for the worst cuz that's usually where guys go and CSE right they expect the best and the worst happens and they didn't prepare for it yeah and so as you help them prepare for it what are some steps that you help them with in that preparation phase yeah so that would be like the hardest conversation for guys to have is that what's in the way conversation uh just naturally because it's so vulnerable and it's a very easy place to get defensive so it's usually you know a week or two in advance going to their wife and say hey hun I really want to have this conversation and this might be where it's just the guy who's going to do it for the first point and present it and show his wife that he's working and healing and wanting to reconcile so I might be hey hun I really want to have this special conversation I've spent some time dealing with the things that go on in my head when we are intimate when we're having sex that really caused me to struggle with erecti dysfunction and I want to create a safe space where we can talk about those things where I can present them to you not as I want to tell you where you're doing anything wrong cuz this is isn't actually about you it's really about my internal challenges that I'm noticing tie back to my mother and women that I was you know cheated on or betrayed by I just want to create a safe space where you can hear that and I'd love to just grab a bottle of wine light some candles I just want you to feel really safe like how do you feel about that do you want can we talk about that it's just creating this conversation around what does that look like how can it just be incredibly safe because that's going to be the name of the game even if you fumble you don't get through it all it's like if it feels safe and it's a place where there's no defensiveness or justification it's going to open up more of those conversations yeah what what happens if like the wife is like let's not talk about it next week let's talk about it right now yeah I'm free right now like let's do it right now what happens then that that happens that's where like we want to have like the guy prepared like he's not GNA go and present the idea to his wife if it's not ready so I would always want somebody to say something along the lines of you know I have it prepared but it's it's it's quite an emotional conversation for me like we could certainly have it right now I want to honor what would make you feel safe as well but I also have like the best interest in mind for our relationship and I really would love to do it over a a glass of wine and in a place where we've we've prepared ourselves emotionally spiritually we've prayed over it that would be my hope and that's actually what I've been counseled by Sean to do but I want to make sure you feel safe with that as well yeah I love that I love that tip of there's a couple things there number one you kind of put your counselor or coach right there like hey this is the advice he the expert so let's follow his advice but too like you're also trying to take the leadership mantle a little bit just like Hey how do we guide you well and the preparation right no like I think one of the things I think about is no one likes to have a deep intense conversation with both parties not prepared here at least you're saying let's both get in it prayer you're mentally ready for a hard conversation and really I find for the spouse when they're coming in trying to you know when the husband's trying to find Healing the spouse now is mentally more prepared to be able to give good feedback or good advice and Truth versus kind of being caught off guard it's so true and women at least from what I've seen right they want to like yeah like that's amazing you're making progress like tell me about it and guys yeah we're just not as in tune with our emot that way like often see guys where when they try and have those conversations off the hip it just feels like they go in rabbit trails and they go off off topic they say things that we didn't plan for them to say and it actually a lot of times makes things worse not not because of what they say necessarily but because it feels so scattered and women are looking for structure in that sense of their recovery they're looking for something they can grab on to and trust and sometimes when they see their husband scattered all over the place kind of like a bit behind behind his breath it doesn't build the most confidence yeah and what's interesting is that I had a friend of mine who told me and this wasn't related to Ed or pornography but he just had a conflict with someone and he's like I just decided to write it down he's a great writer he's a great communicator with words he's like I wrote it down and literally when we met I just read it and he's like it was one of the most benofficial things I could have done to get progress in this conversation and things went a whole lot better so guys listening I think that if you feel like you stumble with your words try writing it down absolutely yeah it certainly doesn't come off disingenuine and that's probably the LIE is that if I script it it'll sound robotic it's like no it's you reading what you wrote like that's actually really beautiful and then maybe the other thing I would say is that there's this concept where guys feel like if they don't just do what their wife's asking uh or if they're in the middle of a conflict they don't just like stay at it and fix it right in that moment they're they're almost doing a disservice but I think the best thing we could ever do is keep the best interest of the relationship in mind so if you're in a conflict it's a beautiful gift to tell your wife hey I'm in fight mode right now and this isn't going in the direction that I want it to I really want to reconcile with you but I can't right now I I need 10 minutes to decompress and come back to this a lot of guys feel like that's just going to make their wife angry it's like you are doing the right right thing if she is angry about that it's probably because you've never shown her that you can be trusted but why don't you show her that now yeah and all this you know going back to rectile dysfunction is the building blocks that you're helping people cuz you're setting up proper boundaries you're setting up proper safety so that you can have these conversations and the anxiety the fear starts to go away and you can have proper expectations in the future exactly Sean as we wrap up here what's one you know final takeaway that you could just give men who if they are struggling with this they can truly find Freedom yeah I like to give this visual I don't know if this is going to be recorded or not but I always love to give this visual of there is the guy I'm working with and then there's a problem and most of the guys that I work with they think that they are the problem they have this like connection point but I love to show them visually it's separated sure like there's a sin problem but ultimately it's like even if you think you're flawed and you are flawed yeah we are all flawed but God has coming and redeemed you there is a problem and then there's you we don't have to say you are the problem and we can separate those two things it helps us talk about the problem with vulnerability it helps us look at what the problem is with the lies and the fears and the expectations and it just lays a beautiful groundwork for reclaiming what really intimacy is is is being fully known I I love that you know you're like helping disassociate the emotional entanglements by saying hey this is a problem this is you yeah and Men love solving problems so then they kind of go and be like oh yeah that's the problem all right let's look at it objectively uh I love that man Sean as you as we wrap up here man if people are listening to this are like I love what Sean is talking about I need what he's got what's the best way to reach out to you or just even get advice yeah absolutely um secr habit.com uh my blog you can get my 90day withdrawal guide you can book a call with our team to learn how to work with me you can look at some of the mini courses I've created so there's a lot of awesome resources there on top of our podcast so secr habit.com be able to get everything in terms of like wanting to contact me uh I can give you my email K sean.

Bono sopas sam.com so you know not the not the easiest one for everyone to know of spells but if somebody wanted to reach out and maybe get a little bit of con uh direction of where to go next could certainly help them with that as well I'll put it in the show notes so people have it they'll be like it's kind of like my last name everybody's like how do you spell that I'm like yeah just I try to make it simple just Ken here we go awesome yes well Sean thank you so much for all this and thank you for helping men because I you know one of the things I always like to share is that I believe men are the Bedrock of society when you have thriving men you have thriving wives you have thriving kids you have a thriving Society like all that starts with if men are whole and healed and I love that you're just helping in a place where there can be so much shame and so much secrecy you're like no no let's get this out in the open and let's start to see what happens and my favorite part is you're trying to do it without drugs right because there's a psychological and spiritual component to it and if you could heal that way praise God right then you don't need the extra drugs you don't need the side effects you've actually taken care of yourself men and I love that about what you're doing and I'm praying that the Lord just keeps blessing your ministry and all the stuff you're doing in the Czech Republic and just with men uh so thank you so much for everything you've done yeah receive that Ken it's a blessing to hear that and I'm always humbled uh being able to see God use my story and my mantra for many years was let my failures be your success so that's a a mantra that I love to live by I love it I love it well with that being said we're going to wrap up our time here for you men kind of what he was just saying right like let his failures let my failures be your success and the thing that I want you to always keep thinking about as we wrap up this episode is men continue to kill shame stand strong and be on Mission hope you guys have a great day and God bless thanks for joining us today if you found this episode helpful make sure to subscribe and leave a review remember killing shame isn't just about breaking free from the past it's about walking boldly into the future God has for you