From Adultery to Redemption: A Powerful Testimony of God’s Grace w/ Keith Johnson

Transcript

good afternoon everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Shameless podcast today I have one of my favorite guests I think Keith Johnson he is full of the spirit very joyful very exciting to talk to and very passionate individual I think we are going to have a lot of fun but his story there is a massive roller coaster that we're going to talk about but Keith is married with three adult boys and that is because of God's grace amen today's topic what we're going to talk about is actually adultery and how Keith you had committed adultery several times one time before coming to Jesus and and one time shortly after that but really ultimately like you were locked in the chains of sexual sin for for 35 years and today I I hope to hear more of your story how God broke you free from it and how you really started helping men recover since like 2020 and help them see the change that they really needed so thank you for coming on the podcast my friend absolutely well it's great to see you and talk to you guys and I'm thankful to be a part of your podcast and to be able to reach guys that are locked up or potentially locked up and hopefully they have see a story of Hope and that you know the Holy Spirit can break us all free from it so really excited to be here with you and yeah and that's huge Keith because you know sometimes people as we were talking before this and when we did our our pre-interview right there's like two streams of there's a guys who are currently committing adultery and then there's are guys who are walking that path and getting ready to commit adultery they're flirting with it they're either having an emotional fair or they're having so many lustful thoughts that it could happen at any moment absolutely and uh I'm just excited because when I heard your story how really you were so stuck in the muck feeling like there was no way out but man God's grace and how powerful he was amen so let's jump into it man tell me just give everybody a a few minutes of your background and what actually started to cause your struggle with lust and how did it manifest absolutely so it goes back into like Mo many of us family of origin family Dynamics things like that grew up in a pretty I would say a hostile type environment hostile is a it's a fru word but it's true there's a lot of fighting a lot of anger a lot of you know arguments and things like that so from an early on age I learned a couple Unwritten rules and I think that can be a key for some folks for me it was don't ask for anything don't need anything and don't say anything that's how I kept peace in the house but that was a seeded for addiction but at age nine uh my stepb brother began uh sexually acting out with me and of course my three Unwritten rules kept that secret and hidden but then I knew it was absolutely wrong but at the same time in some Twisted way uh which sexual sin does it actually can feel good so there's creating a huge amount of confusion but that actually twisted and perverted all of my understanding of sex and I was a young kid I just didn't understand it to begin with so from then on I just started seeking things out and by the age of 12 or 13 I was in a full-blown addictive cycle it ruled all of my thought patterns all of my behavioral patterns and just finding and seeking things out and that varied and it escalated into my college Years and into adulthood um and then obviously when I got married I brought all of that with me so in that my bride was aware of it and that caused a a real gap between us it really actually created a problem and there was some things going on within like sexual inactivity which then I began using as a justification so now I'm like okay this is wrong so now I I have a justification for fulfilling that need most of this was pre- internet or at least most you know prior to public using it in minor ways but that's what actually led to you know and when you're in these things it start it may start out with por or masturbation but it tends to grow with a need a perceived need again it's a lie the enemy but there's a need for more of that dopamine hit more of a thrill so it became a thrill seeking thing as well within the addiction and that led to that first instance of adultery eventually and so that happened you know of course again you're feeding one side of this that's just absolutely ugly and and and it's sinful and it sin you know Bible tells us that wages of sin is death and that's the road that I was on but then you know you also as a part of all of this you're just continually locked in G sh or guilt and shame and that shame can hold you down and all through this of course my Unwritten rules were still applying to me don't say anything just keep it hidden so now I've got to do a life of a true addictive personality where I've got dual lives so a lot of facades a lot of masks a lot of lying um to cover all of this up and I never really understood it again I want to be clear that I was not born again through this period of time of my life I was a born again at 42 so but this addiction was running all the way through my adult life and even despite success in the corporate world and other things this was still underlying and running all of it born again at 42 praise God for that I was going through a divorce because of this was the main reason for that and I began seeking God I had somebody witnessing to me and finally surrendered at 42 and and I actually felt like I was free and I felt God did A Miracle Within Me which was amazing but at the same time with that I just kind of left most of this unconfessed and I think that's the bigger message that I have is through confession the Bible tells us that confession God is faithful and just and he will forgive us our sins but then he goes further than that he doesn't leave us in that even and he cleanses of all unrighteousness and at the same time Bible also tells us that it brings healing but so I left most of this unconfessed so when life heated up again stresses came in in a second marriage I fell right back into that addictive cycle and I just kind of that Idol crept back in my life but also God is faith and he's just and he's also very kind he brought me to a place where that was exposed in a fairly public way within my church leadership and directly to my wife and at that moment I had a choice do I confess repent or do I run I just knew I had nowhere else to go I was on the verge of losing everything my marriage my church all of my friends everything would have been swept away so where would I go I kind of felt like when Jesus as asked the disciples are you guys going to leave me too and Peter just turned around and told them I have you know we have nowhere else to go you have the words of life and and that was what it was and thankfully I had my best friend and church leader came and just met me gave me a bog and told me he loved me and that he was going to work with me through this issue and that you know and that just gave me right in that moment a solid foundation from which to work and I just can't a process of confession yeah so so as I I hear this he gave you this process of found like a foundational process but there was still a lot to work through a ton yeah this was just getting through those first moments of disclosure in first moments of Discovery you know and you're literally your white life is blowing up around you and it brings you kind of like that Psalm 46 of where you know you know the literally the mountains are quing and falling into the ocean I had nothing I had no solid foundations but I knew that I had somebody who was willing to accept to me in that moment and give me Grace and I knew that that was the love of Christ in the moment to me yeah and I also felt like I've got nowhere to go so I just started answering the questions and confessing this full body of sin most of it I honestly couldn't even remember I just had to keep coming back to it and keep coming back to it so it didn't last minutes or hours it lasted days and even months before everything started coming out and so coming back to that second period of adultery you know all of that shame and guilt that was the first moment that I actually felt there might be something of life left because before that I had been feeling all along just broken and defective especially being prior to being born again when I was born again I felt okay no I I can be free but as I came came out of this moment that that was the first T I felt like God can actually reach into this Meer and mck and bring me out of it so hope kind of began dwelling in now at the same time they didn't just leave it there I think you know the the leaders actually wanted to bring more to me yeah so as they were getting ready to bring more to you that's what we'll discuss here in the latter half I want to dig into both these periods right because one was before Christ and one was after Christ right so it it almost I can imagine be two different feelings of Shame right one was just like the the internal before Christ like I don't know I shouldn't have done that but okay whatever like you justify it now being in Christ you're like oh my gosh the weight is even worse can feel worse let's talk about the the the first one what were the justifications you had in your mind that led you down this pathway saying this is okay yeah well I never knew it was okay I always knew it was wrong and that's where that level of guilt and shame was always there and it would compound over time each time you know eventually the internet came out and I was you know it's a lot of activity there so I always knew that it was wrong I always knew and I always believed in God but I just didn't have the conviction of sin at least heavy enough to do anything about it so I just felt I didn't have a choice I felt like I this was the way to survive kind of with without dealing with all of the pain Without Really comprehending anything I didn't understand the patterns I didn't understand how they started I didn't understand anything other than this was the one way that I actually felt pretty like alive and somewhat fulfilled sexually the biggest justification was that things were not right with my wife and if she's not interested I need to I need to fill that whole complete lie of the enemy and if I would have been able to at that point Point actually deal with some things and answer really hard questions I could have potentially found something but ultimately I just didn't it was just more shame and shame and shame yeah at what point did that come out and your first wife was like I'm done I don't want to be a part of this yeah there were moments of Discovery all along the way and I think she had reached a point where there wasn't you know there just wasn't true intimacy and then she actually ended up confiding in somebody else and they developed a relationship and she decided to leave the marriage but I don't think any of that would have happened without the underlying issue that I was dealing with yeah so what kind of you know when we talk about Shame Shame can manifest itself in so many varied ways how did shame manifest in you during that period where she's like now I want to divorce you like there's this culmination of your sin coming up yeah it really brought me to a place of there has to be an answer and there has to be something better or what's the point it wasn't suicidal but it was just a point of absolute despair I was losing my marriage I was losing being able to live with my children I was losing all of that and I just had to come to a place where there has to be answers and I don't know what they are um and I just started searching and that's when my sister was kind enough to just start actually sharing the gospel with me and talking to me about Jesus and that kind of gave me hope that there could potentially be something here at that point it was all a mental exercise yeah but I just could feel like hey there is a way to get free of these things potentially I just don't know yeah and eventually at the moment of Salvation I just could feel something that there is hope yeah you know I've never phrased it this way and people may get really mad at me if I do after it comes out of my mouth but it seemed like there was uh there's like a good shame and a bad shame and for you in some ways that this was like really good shame because it would brought you to your knees yes and got you to a place to start asking God some really hard questions and and absolutely brought you to Faith yeah right absolutely absolutely right and shame is supposed to be working with guilt right God designed us to feel shame to point to guilt which is more an objective term it's a legal term guilty not guilty right subjective and so when that gets out of whack and the guilt is never dealt with the shame just starts getting you bury yourself in it you get locked in it and that's when you start isolating hiding lying you don't know what to do with it and it kind of oppresses you when you're dealing with shame correctly you can feel it and then you just have to examine am I guilty or not and if I am okay that's where confession and repentance comes in I'm right before the Lord and I can get right with a brother or sister that harmed and now I'm blocking free with my head held high knowing Grace but if I don't do that it still sits there undt with and that's kind of what was happening but yeah it can actually it should point us into the point of hey there's some guilt here or at least ask the question is there guilt here and if so there's a right way to deal with that that's why Jesus died on the cross but without knowing that I I was still kind of hung up in it but I knew that there was something yeah and and that's where you know if I were to expand on the shame aspect right it sounds like at the beginning you felt the the guilt and shame of it right that's the good shame and then the bad shame I would actually probably phrase it as condemnation absolutely where there is no guilt yes you you can't you stop feeling guilt because it's just so unresolved and all you do for me I felt absolutely broken and defective I was beyond help I couldn't figure out anything you know along those years yes I had gone to some counseling I hadn't tried any recovery programs but it just all felt empty and I didn't get anywhere with it so my only answer was I'm broken there's something actually wrong and defective here and I don't know if it can be repaired is how I was really feeling that was the oppressive way of Shame yes I can still function but it just was not fruitful in any way yeah so what was it that your sister communicated to you about the gospel that all of a sudden brought you just this like immense aha Like There's Hope and freedom yeah it wasn't one thing it was a number of conversations reinforcing that she loved me number one number two that God loves me and Jesus died for all of this and we started just pecking away at that and in the meantime she also handed me a ton of books Bibles and started like I know you want this to be a mental exercise it really isn't but there's going to be you have to do some exploration on your own to figure out where you're at to get to this point when I I finally got to a point of God if all of this is true if all of this is real I want to know you are real and I want to feel you move I want to you know was almost like asking for a sign of course Jesus speaks about those who ask for a sign but it was my way of reaching for it so my prayer I decided finally to go to church with her and we visited the current church that I'm at and the one I'm working for walked in those doors and really quickly worship started and every the whole church vibrant worship the whole church is dancing singing and I just was unaccustomed to it but I'm like these people see something they know something they feel something and then all of a sudden the power went out there's no amps there's no there's no mics there's no screens there's nothing but the church kept worshiping and that's when I felt the spirit move and I'm like okay Lord you actually are telling me you're showing me that you're real okay now I've got to kind of start holding up my end of the bargain and then in between there was a prophetic word that came and somebody actually just shared the gospel saying I know somebody here is searching and now is the time to actually surrender and so I that's the moment that I just said okay this is it you've shown me Lord I'm in in it's so funny you talked about that passage of like hey this wicked generation ask for a sign but then you were genuinely asking for a sign like you're exploring and there there's like a d there right but like I'm going to give it to you and he does yes your life gets radically transformed you feel like the guilt goes away yes right uh so so walk us through like the first few months or maybe I I don't know how long was it before you had that freedom and then you met your second wife and started to feel a stress yes yeah so there was a period of a couple years or so where I was walking free and I had disclosed some of these things I've struggled with sexual sin this was a part of the divorce this was part of my history I never really got to Brass tax on it and then obviously there's just an attitude of Grace and love and acceptance in that which is wonderful and I actually did feel free I wasn't acting out I wasn't really feeling super tempted either I was really taken with Christ and just being a new creation right and so there's that spiritual truth the old is gone the new is come but the problem is I didn't take off the old man and put on the new fully I still held on to some of this stuff so started dating my wife we get married and we were just coming in and two adults trying to merge life together and there's other issues that were happening and it created this environment of stress I didn't know how to resolve the conflict well I didn't know how to actually work through this well and and so what end up happening was it got to a place of okay but I need to feel I I need to need to medicate and so I ended it ended up just going back to the old coping mechanisms because I hadn't done the work and I hadn't gone through full confession and so you just and you don't start back from the beginning you kind of pick up where you left off in these things and so it just accelerated quickly but you know and then again now to talk about shame again it was heavier because I know being born again I know the truth now I'm still a young Christian I don't have much of this figured out yet right but I know that I'm I am a new creation but yet I'm giving back now Romans 1 is true God will give us over to the lust of our heart without repentant heart and without somebody who's willing to walk through confession and repentance and actually reach to him for his grace and forgiveness and so he did he was true to his word but he's also just a Good Shepherd who will leave the 99 and come find the one and he did it was not an easy thing and I wasn't like I saw the light and I came to confession I was found out and I was disclosed yeah but that is actually the kindest thing that God could have ever done in my entire life he broke through and he did he picked me up and he held me over his shoulder and he brought me back and it was incredibly painful incredibly embarrassing but all that being said that was the method that he used to break in to a complete degree to push me into confession didn't have a choice confess or run which one you want and and and it was just one of those things were yep okay I'm choosing life I'm going to actually confess these things I'm going to confront this thing and I know I need more to actually Break Free yeah when you started to confess right it all came out it got like you know someone came to your pastors and your wife and like hey we did this thing I'm curious what was the first thoughts that came to your mind it my first thought was I'm lost I've lost everything and I kind of want to just die I really I was felt physically ill and bankrupt again and I didn't know where to go but that's when you know I knew this was happening and I just reached out to one of the leaders and I just shared with him hey life is literally blowing up right now and I don't know what to do and he just said well meet me in my office yeah and so I just I went first thing you were just like let's go let's figure it out go yeah and I didn't know what I didn't know I I just kind of felt like Yep they're going to be kind and generous but they're probably going to tell me that I'm done in the church and that they're going to counsel her for divorce and you know biblically she had all the grounds in the world for it but it was also a time of they knew me in need and they started helping me and then that was kind of like we just want confession we just want to understand this entire situation so we can give counsel to both of you and we can help you both through it and so there wasn't a praise God whatever judgments they had in their hearts and Minds yeah which is huge Keith because I think most people when they hear confession and you said that multiple times now of like confess confess and we dig deeper of what that should look like here in a second what they did was they wanted you to confess so so that once it's in the light they know how to help you not to judge you that's exactly right that is exactly right it's massive and I would pray that church leaders would understand and I think they really do they've been trained by it but they also are filled with the Holy Spirit to understand confession comes from a place of pain it comes from a place of sin and there's one way to restore it and that's to actually bring it into the light with Grace and yes Church discipline can be real and it should be real and it also there's we serve a holy God who cannot abide sin and yet so he loved us so much right that was Jesus humbled himself became man and died for it all and so that's real or not and I just pray that yes leaders would have that sense of Grace without judgment judgment is proper we're called to actually judge right and wrong you know sin all of those things and so they have to do that but if you can do it with love and grace you can Propel somebody into restoration you can actually bring somebody and restore them and the Bible calls us that right speak gently go to a brother and help him in Truth and Love bring him around and facilitate that confession and facilitate that repentance and that's exactly what happened okay so you started confessing you started repenting you started to feel free I'm curious how did your wife respond to all this cuz she had all grounds to leave you you guys are still married so we kind of know the future but like during that moment you did it yeah she obviously you go through the range of emotions of betrayal anger just pain sorrow sadness feeling of absolute loss which is which is right in it and all normal but she she took that breath measured it out weighed it out and we worked together for a period of time through my ultimate confession of infidelity and then there was a point of time where it's like okay I just need to know that that's true and if so then we need to take some other steps and so she along with Council of church leaders and I was involved with this we separated for six months yeah without contact six months so no calls no texts no emails no nothing directly anything that had to be dealt with was through church leaders but it gave us both time and space for her to be praying and seeking God what do you have for me and do I have faith for this or not and she had all the grounds to divorce and I knew that and so for me but for me I had to end all outcome based thinking of worrying about that I had to put everything on the altar um talking Abraham and Isaac here I had to put my marriage on the Altar and be willing I had to sacrifice it I had to because I knew first and foremost I needed to get right with the Lord and I needed character to be built I needed to be restored first as as just a child of God second as a husband if that was his will so we did embark on a six-month separation incredibly hard and painful and we both felt it and as we came back together it was a it was a kind of like um and she just you know God worked through her a lot too in that whole period of time and he B she B basically told me I don't have faith for divorce but I'm not sure I have faith for marriage we're just going to play this out and see how it goes and kind of like uh proof is going to be in the pudding type of thing you know from a practical standpoint so that's how we came back together and have kind of walked along so so when you heard that when she was like now you need to prove it you knew you weren't going to get divorced but like you're like oh gosh not how yeah not yet anyway right you're like okay I got I got a day I got like day by day yep what changed in your heart or how did you start to like fight for the marriage yeah well you know it's interesting kind because I think all along like early on I I got into therapy I got into recovery all through this process so through those whole many months I still had to have a non- outcome based thinking my only outcome based thinking was I need to really walk day by day free of sexual sin and deal with these things rightly and and I knew like if I did that day after day I don't have to worry about months or years here I need to worry about today and I need to worry about today only and if I do that enough times in a row God can work and rebuild trust he can rebuild the marriage and he can actually not just rebuild it but he can reconstruct it in a right way that is much better than anything we would have had prior yeah so you started to I love how you talked about this it it's not out based you know thinking or outcome based thinking but like it was really just a process like let me walk through this process so walk people through what was the initial process first confession right first confession yep and ongoing confession and then it was therapy so I had to understand you know therapy is great to help you understand something but it doesn't quite fix it it's not going to resolve things the only time that I found resolution is from the word of God and him God himself like he brings healing and he brings restoration but I needed to understand it because I still was feeling defective like there's still something wrong with me so the therapy helped me sort out a number of things including my timeline what was the Genesis of all this what's what's actually happening within my behavior patterns within my thought patterns and physiologically even so that was really helpful the other thing though at the same time was um you know church leaders referred me to a Christian coun counselor who also said okay in order to work through this you're going to get into 12 step recovery programs you're going to get into at least one of them if not two of them and you're going to go to as many meetings as you possibly can yeah this isn't the request this is what's gonna be required and I said okay that's fine and because I knew he just that was the best for me so I started in recovery world as well so I I I entered two groups and I would go ultimately in the very beginning I would go to at least two to three a week through the period of separation it jumped up to like three or four or five a week whenever and the closest ones were like 45 minutes to an hour away this wasn't extremely convenient but it was just like hey this is what I needed so this 12 steps as I looked at it and I understand them is the gospel veiled I'm a sinner I need a savior I Surrender and then I start working through the body of sin through full confession and then I start looking at my character and I start working on these things and then I start actually making wrongs right and then I started sharing my message and so I just went all in I I worked extremely hard through the recovery process I had great people around me and the counseling all along it was like God was Heming Me In from all angles he just was providing me support through leaders he was providing me support through counseling and through the recovery programs yeah so so how did you know going back to the therapy part because we're going to talk about the 12 Steps here in just a second but going back to the therapy one of the things that I I recall you and I talking about was this understanding of the Genesis and then you know your brother kind your stepbrother starting the Genesis of it how did you handle that and process that especially like do you have a relationship with with him now like what happened there yeah good question I mean at first I was really because I needed to really closely and deeply analyze timelines because I had everything out of place I didn't I think it was just repressed I didn't really want to go back there but when I finally figured it out it was this aha moment and of course anger comes you know and there's this anger but I know roots of bitterness is what is going to feed this thing as well so I had to work toward basically forgiveness truth and absolute forgiveness and I spent a lot of time working on this and I was just praying about it and God just showed me he just asked me a simple question um how old was he and of course I'm in a victim perspective right and I'm thinking well I was nine I was a little kid and when he asked me that I'm like he was 10 okay and then he said yeah he was a kid in the same family situations that you were actually even a little worse what do you expect how how are you really going to hold this against somebody like that or do you or can you know and you look at the cross and the Forgiveness that I'm affording you how can you not actually be an empty vessel and pour that forward and it broke me in it because I realized that he's faced the exact same things I did and had had no resources and so it just kind of overwhelmed me in the moment and now I have let's just see I mean I can I'm fine with him I don't have any problems really with him in my heart at all we don't see each other very often at all and don't communicate very very much but he is a critical part of my story and I just I love him because he's a critical part of my story and he's my stepbrother and so I don't really hold anything against him at all yeah you know it's fascinating to hear that cuz I had a similar situation I don't know if you remember I was talking like where I was abused and I remember God doing something very similar where I was so mad and I was like he was like you need to forgive you need to forgive and I was like I will not and I'm like I'm like fighting him you know in my dorm room I'm like I will die before I forgive yes it's a process isn't it oh it was a massive process and even my forgiveness story I I I should actually record that as a podcast episode like what is forgiveness but I remember going and be like Lord I just pray right now for this individual that they would get hit by a bus and see your it was just like that was my view of forgiveness but then I just remember God was like look at all your sin and how I died on the cross for it if I could die for all your sin I could also die for his sin and it was like the first time I just looked at it and say man he if he truly is God and he truly did die for sin it's not like there's certain sins that are out of the grace of God exactly and I was like okay Lord I like I forgive and it took it it was months and months but I I have the same feeling of like complete empathy of like yes this person was not a Believer they were in the stuck in the same situations and you're just like God how do you like come reveal yourself to this individual and save this individual bring hope bring Salvation right because just is lost yep exactly exactly and I I'll add this as a caveat for those who are listening to this by no means are Keith and I saying that like we're just letting it be permissive like it's okay or sexual abuse is okay no no it like if there are judicial processes that need to go through and there's stuff that needs to happen like take action but from an internal heart perspective it's to be free from this yeah absolutely so Keith you know you started getting healed you started forgiving and then 2020 comes around you start meeting with people one-on-one right and getting help with them and then now you kind of built your own 12-step program because you realize that there were some things that were teaching that you're like that's not fully in the word and you kind of fleshed out something so walk us through it very quickly this is more like high level for people and if they want help they can come Reach Out out to you but like walk us through the the 12 Steps yeah I mean like I I mentioned 12 steps to me was the Gospel veiled and for reason right it's watered down it's worldwide it's not specific to any religion and it's proven millions and millions of recovered people from it in all kinds of addictions right but what I loved about it first of all was that it was very action oriented and it was very much I have to own my own sin I have to actually share it I have to actually walk in the light and in doing so this also is a practical framework for me to change behaviors learn how to fight and learn how to actually abstain from sin and let God actually change the Character defects the underlying issues sexual sin is not just choosing sin for a sin's sake it's actually there's something that's propelling us forward there's underlying issues and addictive processes it's understanding those dealing with them and walking day by sooner or later those things stop having now this is again where we can rejoice in our sufferings right Romans 5 we rejoice in our sufferings right they produce endurance or perseverance which leads to character which brings hope all of that's true but you have to actually persevere day by day and so I noticed in the secular world most recovery programs will say once an addict always an addict and you're got to go to meetings forever and I just didn't truly believe that I believe in the Redemptive power of Christ so I wanted something with Jesus at the center and I've looked at a bunch of other reprover programs and some of them were very good and I'm not an inventor I kind of more of a um somebody who brings things together so I took some of the best parts of a lot of different programs and then I just applied Jesus at the center of it all based on scripture and based on my testimony and seeing God move in power and came up with an alternative view of 12 steps I had a good brother reach out and again I wasn't really actively working it because I didn't know where the church would be in terms of faith of actually doing anything in the moment but a guy reached out he knew my story and he just said hey can we start working this I know you've worked them we've talked and I've started doing it too but I just need I need a sponsor can you do that and I'm like absolutely and he started seeing Breaking Chains there and then the church reached out out of the blue and said hey we're working with something in men's Ministries we want to have some focus on Purity would you be willing to be a part of that and of course I'm like absolutely and they said well would you be willing to share your story and that was another moment of time of like yes because we over come by the blood of the lamb and the word of Our Testimony and if God's brought me through all of this I want it to be for power and I want it to be for use of others I want others to break free and so I shared my story and we started working and I actually compiled this 12-step program and I ended up at one you know I've got I think 11 guys in it currently had a height of 14 but I've seen marriages restored I've seen people break free I've seen God work in amazing ways that is absolutely incredible so it's it's not me alone you know I'm not unique here but it's somebody who's willing to stand up and stand and speak and say hey there is hope here it can look absolutely hopeless and broken but the all things are possible through God and he will strengthen you he promises it will never leave us never forsake us but he will help us strengthen us and hold us up in his righteous right hand and all we have to do is just reach to him for it participate with him and he'll do the work yeah man Keith you know and this is where you and I were talking we're like we could go for hours on this because it's so important right like the step one is Gospel availed right but then needing him and I love how you're like we're not addicts and I think this is where you and I were like going back and forth because it's like no we are actually New Creations like standing in our identity in Christ is the most foundational and important thing to walk in Freedom like if you don't see yourself as a beloved child of God who's pure and blameless you're always going to fall back right absolutely and that's part of the renewing and there's a whole bunch of Neuroscience that we could talk about but I love how the Bible always talks about it like renew your mind what do you renew it with you're a Son of God the word of God right yes you know for you Keith I don't know if it's possible but can you walk us through the 12 Steps really fast like if you know them know them titles of them yeah yeah and I've Rewritten them a little bit but one is admitting so you admit your powerlessness step two is you need a higher power that's what the secular world will say I need a savior is what I say I need to to recognize the Lord as my savior the third one is surrender I'm fully surrendering my will my way to the way the will of the word of God and by step four I'm going to do a Fearless searching inventory of all of the things that I've done and so then I'm putting I'm creating this list my whole body of sin is in front of me and I need to actually step five is confessing that and sharing that with so now I'm working into confession right away step six is are you becoming completely willing to have God remove your Character defects well the reality is those defects were the coping mechanisms and the things that you've relied on for so whatever long period of time are you willing to have him remove it and if so then step seven is actually humbly asking him to remove those Character defects and number eight is now I'm starting to okay I'm starting to break all that shame but I've done a lot of harm I need to actually recognize who did I harm in what ways step nine is to ask for amends for those things it's making amends which is a term that means making it right it's not about getting forgiveness it's actually making a wrong right now there's a caveat in there unless it harms yourself or others that's an important caveat because you don't want to recreate problems or harm and then step 10 is actually taking inventories it's understanding what am I thinking feeling doing in this moment and how is that impacting me and then Step 11 right increase your conscious contact with God I need to actually have intimacy with the Lord to walk this out on an ongoing basis and step 12 is just sharing the story so now I'm actually leading others through it I'm sponsoring people I'm leading other efforts and so it's really kind of taking hold of everything that I just went through I've and and in this process you take off the old and you put on the new like you talked about identity has to be extremely strong in fact I've written a step zero and I've written a step one half and Step Zero is let's do triage and stop the bleeding put in some boundaries barriers and Tall walls let's stop the behavior step one half is I need to understand my identity and then I start building from there so it's really a journey it's a practical framework for us because if we think about this if we're in a hopeless situation feeling broken and defective it's not like I'm just gonna say well I'm gonna get better tomorrow I need a way to actually building block method of working through getting rid of those addictive behaviors but understanding what's underneath them dealing with them on an ongoing basis ongoing confession and then trying to you know and as you go through all of that you will break these patterns and it's incredible to see but the beautiful part about this is and this is one thing that I I it it was just Revelation to me as I walk through it but I see it in every guy that I've worked through that's broken free it's not just sexual sin what you're dealing with what you're learning to deal with is sin in and of itself and as we build that spiritual character and we truly become disciples followers of Jesus we learn to obey it affects every sin pattern it affects every aspect of life I'll become a better husband I'll become a better father I'll become a better employee I'll become a better friend and I will learn how to serve the Lord in an amazing way that I've never known before and so that's the real trick and and it's all done by God's grace which is the power for us to be transformed and we you know we can't do it on our own otherwise we would have right but we can do it with him and we cannot do it alone without Fellowship we need others around us that we can actually share real things and walk through them well yeah Keith man that is so empowering and I think if anything I want people to walk away knowing the hope that they have in God how you're just saying like we can't do it on our own God is the one who transforms us and now he's given us the tools to be able to actually keep that transformation going absolutely yep so Keith As we walk through this process and we wrap up there might be a guy right now who is listening to this and they're like oh my God go I want what Keith has my marriage is in shambles I know I'm going down the wrong path yeah what's one thing that you could just Empower him with him today that he can do so that he could feel the same Freedom you felt yeah I think the thing is is that God's arms are not shortened he can reach into any situation but we have to turn to him we have to bring it out into the light and even if it looks like it's going to cost you everything that's a lie of the enemy don't let him win that battle you just have to understand there's consequences to sin yes but there's Freedom through confession there's Freedom through repentance and there's freedom in actually partnering with him in these things so it doesn't matter how far you've gone it doesn't matter what you've done it doesn't matter how many millions of times you've done it the power of God is just a Heartbeat Away it's a confession it's just a bending of the knee and a confession with our mouth and it's there I know there can be a lot of stigma about recovery programs and 12 steps and stuff but all that to be said the power of God is in it but ultimately we have to reach to him first and that forgiveness of sins is real but the healing is real as well yeah awesome Keith thank you so much man this has been amazing I I walked away the first time and now again the second time being like yeah it's possible like I I'm just fired up right because men really find the freedom and like excited absolutely for men who are hearing this and they're like I I need help Keith what's and if you have time and all that stuff what's the best way to reach out to you so that they can get to know you more and hear more about you what you do yeah absolutely the best way honestly is through email just because I won't lose track of it and you know I can I can I can get back to people as they can and I can I can walk through some things and and actually you know if nothing else in part hope but that's probably the best way to do it K Johnson livinglight church.com it's the easiest fastest and most available way awesome Keith thank you so much for your time really appreciate this and for those of you who are listening I just want you to know how much Keith you know we've been talking here for 40 plus minutes but like and it it's a roller coaster of a ride that's four 55 years of this roller coaster and if you just met him the way I've met him the fast p he's full of joy he's full of Peace he he's very passionate like Keith you are so passionate about freedom and hope like even if you guys Rel listen to this right it's like five minutes in he just wants to talk about the hope he has in Christ and just how God's Grace has transformed him you can have that same type of feelings the same type of freedom and the same type of truth in your life amen to that it's not your sin does not outpace the grace of God that's right yeah awesome well ke thank you so much for being part for all of you men keep pursuing Jesus and like I say every single time kill shame stand strong and be on Mission hope you have a great day and God bless yeah thanks Ken take care see you bye